Our thoughts are with you UK!

John Dixon

Obviously the victims of this atrocity need our thoughts, prayers, and sympathy during the post-incident time of adjustment. Once that storm has passed, it is time to turn our full and complete attention towards the cowards who commit these senseless and vile acts against humanity.

I, like most of you, want to live a life of peace and tranquility, but it is apparent some factions will not allow that to happen. They relish the pain and suffering they can inflict on others. They strike out at innocent people just going about their own business.They also depend on our restraint of using force. It is time to "let slip the dogs of war". The Free World has to answer these challenges to our freedom, and we must answer with complete clarity. These foes only understand one language...force. They refuse to listen to anything else. Well, so be it. This is truly a war about freedom, and they are waging it on us. There is a peace waiting for us on the other side of what has to be done, that they don't want us to have.

There's an old saying from Texas about teasing a bull, "you pulled the bull's tail, now here come the horns".

I will continue to keep all you Brits in my thoughts and prayers. I also know the resolve and determination of those in the U.K. I have family there as well, so this is extremely personal to me.

These "enemies of freedom" don't know what they just opened themselves up to, but they will... I assure you...they will.

With my deepest respects and admiration,

John

Edit: My "Signature" line is a Latin phrase that I took to heart many years ago. It means; "If you want peace, prepare for war". Seems appropriate for this thread.

__________________
John Dixon

Si vis pacem parabellum

Stay off the trails of others, that's where the booby-traps are.

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Emperor Fish

Mike,

Don't take this the wrong way - but this is TOTALLY about race and religion. This is about the evil way of the people who want to see everyone who is not a Muslim wiped from the face of the earth. These people have No political aim (other than to kill every non-muslim) - they did not bomb the WTC on 9/11 for any purpose other than to take lives of non-muslims. They did not bomb the Madrid rail system to gain some advantage in their political cause, because they have none. And they did not bomb us for any other reason than their Koran tells them to.

We will not win this battle by pretending that the Koran (Qu'ran), does not expressly advise Muslims to kill every Jew and Christian in the world.

Apologies, but I am very EMOTIONAL. I wonder why.

Too many apologists, not enough realists.

Fish.

PS Everyone is alive and well.

__________________
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill.

HEALTH WARNING: Engage brain fully, before typing into keyboard.


"We are the average gamers and we'll kill you badly. There'll be no finesse. no fancy tricks, no inventive attacks, just 2 whole smg clips and a rain of 'nades."

RonMartin(deceased)

Fish, not all that sure the Koran says that. (and no I am not Moslem)
But FWIW I do agree with you that there is no political issue here. Just meanness and down right stupidity.
The terrorist are wrong. I think that even their Koran would condemn them.

Emperor Fish

God's curse be upon the infidels! Evil is that for which they have bartered away their souls. To deny God's own revelation, grudging that He should reveal His bounty to whom He chooses from among His servants! They have incurred God's most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits the unbelievers.

Q 2:92-6

Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage.

Q 2:190-3

When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.

Q 9:5

Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.

Q 9:73

ANNOUNCE PAINFUL PUNISHMENT TO THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE (9:3)

O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred... (8:65)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve (8:55)

And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah (8:39)

When the sacred months have passed away, THEN SLAY THE IDOLATERS WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND TAKE THEM CAPTIVES AND BESIEGE THEM AND LIE IN WAIT FOR THEM IN EVERY AMBUSH, then if they repent and keep up prayer [become believers] and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them (9:5)

And if they intend to act unfaithfully towards you, so indeed they acted unfaithfully towards Allah before, but He GAVE YOU MASTERY OVER THEM (8:71)

FIGHT THEM: ALLAH WILL PUNISH THEM BY YOUR HANDS AND BRING THEM TO DISGRACE, AND ASSIST YOU AGAINST THEM. (9:14)

FIGHT THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALLAH, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, NOR FOLLOW THE RELIGION OF TRUTH, OUT OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE BOOK, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and THEY ARE IN A STATE OF SUBJECTION. (9:29)

O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination. (9:73)

O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). (9:123)

I WILL CAST TERROR INTO THE HEARTS OF THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE. THEREFORE STRIKE OFF THEIR HEADS AND STRIKE OFF EVERY FINGERTIP OF THEM. THIS IS BECAUSE THEY ACTED ADVERSELY TO ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER; AND WHOEVER ACTS ADVERSELY TO ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER - THEN SURELY ALLAH IS SEVERE IN REQUITING (EVIL). THIS - TASTE IT, AND (KNOW) THAT FOR THE UNBELIEVERS IS THE PUNISHMENT OF FIRE. O you who believe! When you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them. And whoever shall turn his back to them on that day - unless he turn aside for the sake of fighting or withdraws to a company - then he, indeed, becomes deserving of Allah's wrath, and his abode is hell; and an evil destination shall it be. So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy) but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; (8:12-17)

And that you should judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires, and be cautious of them, lest they seduce you from part of what Allah has revealed to you; but if they turn back, then know that Allah desires to afflict them on account of some of their faults; and most surely many of the people are transgressors. Is it then the judgment of the times of ignorance that they desire: and who is better than Allah to judge for a people who are sure? O YOU WHO BELIEVE! DO NOT TAKE THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS FOR FRIENDS; THEY ARE FRIENDS OF EACH OTHER; AND WHOEVER AMONGST YOU TAKES THEM FOR A FRIEND, THEN SURELY HE IS ONE OF THEM; SURELY ALLAH DOES NOT GUIDE THE UNJUST PEOPLE. (5:49-51)

The punishment of those who pit themselves against Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement, except those who repent before you have them in your power (5:33-34)

Believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one god: far be it from his glory that He should have a son. (4:171)

What is the matter with you, then, that you have become two parties about the hypocrites, while Allah has made them return (to unbelief) for what they have earned? Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err? And whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall by no means find a way for him. THEY DESIRE THAT YOU SHOULD DISBELIEVE AS THEY HAVE DISBELIEVED, SO THAT YOU MIGHT BE ALL ALIKE; THEREFORE TAKE NOT FROM AMONG THEM FRIENDS UNTIL THEY FLY THEIR HOMES IN ALLAH'S WAY; BUT IF THEY TURN BACK, THEN SEIZE THEM AND KILL THEM WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND TAKE NOT FROM AMONG THEM A FRIEND OR A HELPER. (4:89)

As for those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the punishment (4:56)

Surely they who disbelieve in the communications of Allah - they shall have a severe punishment; and Allah is Mighty, the lord of retribution. (3:4)

Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)" (Hadith 4:52:196)

__________________
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill.

HEALTH WARNING: Engage brain fully, before typing into keyboard.


"We are the average gamers and we'll kill you badly. There'll be no finesse. no fancy tricks, no inventive attacks, just 2 whole smg clips and a rain of 'nades."

Attila

(..gulp) ..is there anything else in there?

zube

That's more than a little disturbing Fish. I'm not a scholar, but hopefully that is from the equivilant of the 'Old Testament' portion of the Koran.
zube

Emperor Fish

Now I seem to have your attention.

__________________
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill.

HEALTH WARNING: Engage brain fully, before typing into keyboard.


"We are the average gamers and we'll kill you badly. There'll be no finesse. no fancy tricks, no inventive attacks, just 2 whole smg clips and a rain of 'nades."

mkonig

Fish
No offense taken. Like I said, it's an emotional time.

But I am more than sure that the Koran does not state that Muslims must kill anyone who does not believe in the teachings of Allah and I further belive that most Muslims in this country are law abiding citicens.
We must not judge the majority by the actions of a few extremists. If we do, we are no better than those people who planted the bombs.
Don't get me wrong, I am not a "do gooder" or "softly softly Politically Correct Lefty". I would like nothing better than to see the perpetators brought to justice (and by that I mean an Eye for an Eye! not a prison sentence that costs the country £32,000 a year in taxes). However, I don't believe that we can achieve this by getting in to hatred and being carried along by emotion. We ned to keep level headed and purposeful in this endeavour and seek and employ the support of all sections of our multi cultural society.

For avoidance of doubt, I am not a Muslim nor do I worship in any other God. I am what most people would call an atheist. I do not deny that a God (or Gods) exists, but after a lot of searching, I have not (yet) found enough evidence to make me follow the teachings of any of the holy books.

I am glad that all your loved ones are well!

Regards
Mike

__________________
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person

Emperor Fish

Mike,

Thanks for your thoughts.


Why don't you read the qoutes I posted?

I am not getting into "hatred". I am questioning your understanding.

Regards,

Fish.

__________________
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill.

HEALTH WARNING: Engage brain fully, before typing into keyboard.


"We are the average gamers and we'll kill you badly. There'll be no finesse. no fancy tricks, no inventive attacks, just 2 whole smg clips and a rain of 'nades."