The Grim Reaper, and Bonsai

TreeBay

I think the only flaw in the plan is it relies on third party notification, which is notoriously unreliable. If instead we just look at the server logs and find out that you haven't logged in twice a day for a week, we'll assume you've passed on to the growing bed in the sky, and we'll show up at your home to divvy up the spoils.

Regards,

Matt

P.S. I am having my bonsai cryogenically frozen. Either this or they will form part of the Viking Funeral pyre. Haven't decided.

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Emperor Fish

Matt, Nooooo! I go on holiday and when I get back there will be nothing left.

Perhaps I had better re-think my plan...

Regards,

Fish.

PS I vote for the Viking burial. They knew how to have fun those Vikings. The English would be a couple of inches shorter if they hadn't kindly come along and done so much, ahem, 'pillaging' a while ago.

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Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill.

HEALTH WARNING: Engage brain fully, before typing into keyboard.


"We are the average gamers and we'll kill you badly. There'll be no finesse. no fancy tricks, no inventive attacks, just 2 whole smg clips and a rain of 'nades."

Forest Reef

A bonsaist I know has this plan (sounds like a good one to me)....When the inevitable happens....

He's made arrangements for a knowledgable bonsai professional to appraise his collection when the time comes. Said collection to be donated to a nearby arboretum. Not-interested-in-bonsai heirs (a) know & agreed to plan; and (b) get a nice tax deduction. The arboretum may keep whatever they want (he really does have some nice stuff) and sell the remaining items at their annual auction. Cash proceeds of auction go to the arboretum's bonsai efforts.

For the rest of us...replace 'arboretum' with local club, arboretum, or institution of your choice.

Step 1....discuss with your heirs. You may be surprised & find an heir that DOES like bonsai but was too abashed & shy. Train forthwithly!! Most of us won't be in that group. I've started this step one, by the way. So far, I'm in the group where the provisional heirs....really don't want the bother of attention-heavy bonsai. They'd care for them long enough to transfer elsewhere, given a plan. I'm working on the plan.

Yeah, the pots of most of my pre- & bonsai probably are worth more than the trees. Appraisal mostly to ID the odd Raynor, etc. pot. (Heaven forbid a Raynor go for 50cents at a yard sale and get planted with a petunia when it could go back to bonsai!!) If either no suitable bonsai professional is nearby and/or the collection isn't worth 'formal' appraisal....Local bonsai club members/friends could help. Trees would hopefully end up with another enthusiast, even newbie trainer material is better than kindling. Given a few more years learning on my part - Hey, some of 'em might even be in the 'snap up' class!

General plan, anyway. Now, work out the details. And watch out for errant Bimmers.

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Anita

Nature, time, and patience are the three great physicians.

Craig Cowing

Strikes me as unrealistic to give them to a foundation.



Now this is realistic. I don't want my trees going to an arboretum. I'd much rather have them go to someone who is going to pay for them, and as a result will be motivated to care for them. I hope (although hopefully it will be a long time off, at age 47 now) that if my wife survives me (she does bonsai too) that she would keep the trees she likes the best and donate the rest to whatever club we belong to at the time. My three children have no interest in bonsai other than occasionally looking at them, so I won't be passing any trees on to them.




This is very true. I've heard of trees being left to institutions, only to languish from lack of attention.

Good topic. I hope this one doesn't degenerate as threads here too often do. Thinking about mortality is a healthy thing, and for me bonsai reminds me of that. I reminds me that I will die someday just like my trees will, and that helps me to value the time I have. I also remember not to wish that time would fly more quickly so that my trees will be more developed. If I wish that three years would fly so that my trees would be three years more developed, then that would also mean that I would be three years older. Value each moment I have. That's a big enough challenge.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a unset 37

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I'm not finished yet, neither are my trees.

Emperor Fish

Anita, Craig,

Thank you for your thoughts. Plenty more to digest here.

Regards,

Fish.

__________________
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill.

HEALTH WARNING: Engage brain fully, before typing into keyboard.


"We are the average gamers and we'll kill you badly. There'll be no finesse. no fancy tricks, no inventive attacks, just 2 whole smg clips and a rain of 'nades."

rockm

A couple more thoughts on donating bonsai to an arboretum and assessing their value, for what it's worth.

I would not donate a bonsai to an arboretum, unless I though about it not as a gift of a treasured tree, but as essentially a cash donation to that institution.

I'd also consider the individual arboretum. The National Arboretum in D.C. is the recipient of many donated trees. It tries to keep them healthy, but like any government-run and funded institution, it has to meet a budget. Such donations sometimes place a burden on that budget by soaking up space, fertilizer, time and attention from staff and volunteers. It sells such trees off at auction every few years, after they accumulate and unfortunately languish. I would think this would be doubly or triply so at smaller community or county arboretums with limited staff and no "bonsai" facilities or knowledge to speak.

Also, by all means get an appraisal of your collection BY A BONSAI PROFESSIONAL THAT HAS NO FINANCIAL INTEREST in your collection. I keep the receipts for my larger bonsai purchases--pots and bonsai tschotchkes included. They could give an idea of the neighborhood of valuation (I know I WON'T set resale value however. I have given up on the idea that I will get what I paid for a tree back. That only happens when you're very very very good, or you're John Naka ). I will not leave the valuation to an estate lawyer or similar person to evaluate it. The result could be drastic undervalue, but it could also mean drastic, unrealistic expectations for everyone I leave behind too.

Also, I try to take a cold hard financial look at my trees every som often. I try to distance myself emotionally from them when doing this. I look only for their flaws. I try to stop kidding myself about correcting some of the worst ones and see the tree for what it is. I compare them to really really good trees. Such things not only help in assessing what the trees are actually worth (usually much much MUCH less than I'd like to believe) plus it helps in making decisions about my trees' domestic and esthetic future.

Forest Reef

Very true, excellent points - the arboretum in my example is the North Carolina Arboretum in Asheville, NC. The battle there has already been fought, so to speak (someone with a valuable collection left it to them, they made the committment to support - including staff, and the yearly Carolina Bonsai Expo was subsequently born, among other things....). This arboretum has a full time bonsai person (at least, I don't know how many others participate) and is currently building a bonsai pavilion to better (and securely) display their permanent collection. There's an active local club. They sponsor the yearly Carolina Bonsai Expo, and there's always an auction. So - 1) Yes, they have knowledgable staff to care for the trees (either to keep or until the auction) and 2) The auction is yearly, so 'non-keeper', 'cash donation' trees are not on hold for too long. The auction is during a bonsai expo - the audience is a bunch of bonsai people. My only complaint with it is the prices zoom out of my reach pretty quick. [Life is rough. ]

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Anita

Nature, time, and patience are the three great physicians.

rockm

Anita, even with such dedication, I think donated trees will probally fare much better somewhere else, ideally at auction by a local bonsai club.

This is from observing what happens at the National Arb. It's bonsai activity is supported by a dozen bonsai clubs in the D.C. area. It has a full time director and staff, as well as dozens of unpaid docents and volunteer workers. It has extensive display facilities, greenhouses, etc. Donated trees still get sold off. The vast majority of the donated trees are very good, but not extraordinary, so they can't really be displayed alongside the permanent collection. The arb--although it won't say it- is caught between a rock and a hard place with donated trees. Can't really display them, but they they require resources and time nevertheless.

Forest Reef

I tend to agree that donating to a local club (auction, presumably...) is preferable....Assuming there is an active local club that can handle the donation. A lot of folks in 'active' bonsai areas don't realize how lucky they are. My own baby bonsai club is just getting off the ground - Teacher really did 'seed' the area when he moved here & started lessons about 3yr ago (veritable bonsai desert before then). We voted in January to wait awhile longer before bothering with formal offices, dues, etc. All 5 of us there that night.... An auction (for us) doesn't seem feasible right now. We need to grow a bit more (around a dozen members all told now). I for one won't make long term plans (legal type) around this club as an entity until it gets some more members and demonstrates 'staying power'. Other than donating to a local club - just give to individuals (pick a lucky bonsai buddy). These two solutions are particularly apt for the 'typical' collection (I'm in this category, if anyone's wondering .)

I still think that donations to selected arboretums capable of dealing with the trees is fine - with the understanding that 'dealing with' probably means selling. Face it people - few of us create trees worthy of the National Arboretum or even other local arboreta. Don't surprise the institution - ask them their opinion and make clear you aren't insulted if they sell it off in their annual auction AND if they don't want to accept the donation at all. If they don't have an annual auction to bonsai people (as NC Arboretum DOES) - well, that's a red flag. See previous paragraph. That said, if you have a valuable collection with some really nice specimens, as my friend does, donation to an institution can be a good thing....

I think we basically agree - which path a particular person chooses will depend a lot on the local situation. Are there interested heirs (ask, do not assume)? Is there an active local bonsai organization - established, w/auction (if there is, I don't think we have to ask)? Is there an appropriate arboretum w/annual auction that wants the donation (again, ask and prearrange - do not assume)? Are there lucky bonsai buddies...?

Ok - enough seriousness. Spotted a thread on picking pots for trees. How timely. I'm picking out pots now for this spring's, umm, victims. Off to another thread....

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Anita

Nature, time, and patience are the three great physicians.