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7-Sep-2005
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#11 |
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Trunk Collector
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Andy,
I have no intention of "grilling" you here (I didn't believe I was), or looking for "chinks in the armor". I still don't know how you define artistic fact, other than apparently in can change with circumstances. That in and of itself seems to contradict my concept of fact. Coming from a science backround rather than art, I suspect we may never quite agree on what constitutes a fact, and I'll leave it at that. Regards Brian
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There's a difference between taking your art seriously, and taking yourself too seriously. |
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Facts and Opinions |
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7-Sep-2005
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#12 | |
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Boonified
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Quote:
Brian, I come from a strong science background as well. I looked up the definition of science after reading your post. Science is "the observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena". Art must have a scientific basis as well, since most of this definition is explored in practically any bonsai text I've ever read. I am by no means an expert in art theory, however here is my take on Andy's post. The constant in Andy's two display descriptions in his above post is human perception. The way we perceive things changes with circumstance (e.g. lighting, movement, visual weight) - this is the artistic fact. Whether we like something or not is opinion based upon artistic individuality. But there are certain fundamental perceptive constants we must live with as long as Homo sapiens are our intended audience. Ignoring these perceptive constants hinders our ability to express our individual artistic talents to their best potential.
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Sincerely, Howard www.BonsaiSmiths.net |
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8-Sep-2005
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#13 |
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NCSU Horticulture
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"Artistic fundamentals are not arbitrary, but rather more closely akin to natural law. We do not obey these laws of perception and understanding because we choose to, but because it is natural for us to."
Thomas Aquinus meets bonsai, brilliant! Thanks for the nice post. All the best, JDL |
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8-Sep-2005
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#14 | |
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The Cat's Apprentice
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Quote:
pootsie Last edited by pootsie : 8-Sep-2005 at 12:40 AM. Reason: Forgot the concave cutters. Now, where did William of Occam leave that grafting knife? |
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8-Sep-2005
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#15 |
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bonsaiTALK Master Craftsman
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I don't think we obey these laws because it is natural or otherwise. Instead, I believe that when we do obey them, the result is generally pleasing. It is a constant, and thus not arbitrary.
'Arbitrary' very often results in pink flamingos in our yards, and white leather shoes and belts. zube
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Sorry doesn't put thumbs back on the hand, Marge. H. Simpson |
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8-Sep-2005
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#16 | |
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Trunk Collector
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Quote:
I hesitate to respond again since I said I would leave it alone, but I wanted to thank you Howard for pointing out something that may make some sense to me. If all humans expect and need to see the same things in an artistic composition to find it pleasing or to qualify as art...humans are essentially hard-wired in their artistic perception...THAT I could accept as fact. Not the composition of the art, but the composition of the human brain. Whether that is true or not, I'll leave to others, since I don't have the art, neuroscience or psychology expertise to comment on. Thanks Howard Brian
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There's a difference between taking your art seriously, and taking yourself too seriously. Last edited by BrianBay9 : 8-Sep-2005 at 05:40 PM. |
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8-Sep-2005
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#17 |
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NCSU Horticulture
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Nice photo Pootsie! I'm not sure if you commited a sin, but I'd be watching my bonsai very closely for the next few days ;o) .
All the best, JDL |
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10-Sep-2005
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#18 |
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bonsaiTALK Master
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Andy,
No wrong term my friend- you mean scalene, not isoceles - unless your asymetrical balance can be done with a triangle with at least two equal sides -=- now I can read the rest.
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David Yedwab |
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10-Sep-2005
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#19 |
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bonsaiTALK Craftsman
Join Date: Aug-2005
Location: Campbell south bay area
Country: United States
Posts: 74
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Form, color, placement...narrative. From a reductionist who attempts never to wear black clothing.
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13-Sep-2005
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#20 |
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Professional Amateur
 
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Andy,
Have enjoyed your impassioned enjoinders- I too have a bit of science in my background- perhaps we need to discuss a clintonesque question: What is fact? Some famous facts(?) 0The world is flat - The world is the center of the universe - The world is composed of earth, water, sky and phlogiston (sp, it has been a long time since I took the GRE) - the world was created in seven days - Bonsai must have a first, second and back branch with the first branch appearing at approximately 1/3 the height of the tree; - Bonsai must have open (aka negative?) spaces (for the little birds to fly through); - Americans can't really make meaningful bonsai.... I would say that fact is in the eye of the beholder and that fact is determined by the experience of the beholder. Thus, fact is as fact does...... what we want when we want it? Too philosophical? I am still trying to get over a statement in one of your posts that talked about "facts in psychology......", well ythat one hurts, even a psych professor I serve on committees and have coffee with said- facts in psychology? who would have known.....? John My ox is getting bored waiting for a goring...... |
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