japanese black pine seeds

drewhart

i have read someplace that these seeds need no stratification. yet others say they need 60 days. they also say to keep in hot water for 24 to 48 hrs. is this is? i need clarification.

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Aaron_K

Hi Drew,

Germination is a not an exact science and results differ due to many variables. Different tree species have different requirements for germination - some needing anything up to 4 years or more.

Soaking the seed in some hot water helps the tough husk to soften and the seed within to imbibe water. Some of my JBP seeds didn't need any cold stratification, another batch did - Go figure.

As we are nearing October, I would just put them in the fridge till spring in a sealed container on a sheet of moist tissue paper. You could put them outside in some sand, but then you run the risk of mice and birds finding them.

In late Feb, I soaked my seeds in a small pot filled with hot tap water for 24 hours. I then drained and repeated for another 24 hours. Next I placed the seeds on moist tissue paper in a sealable plastic container on my window sill for a few days. After a couple of days they split open and the shoots emerged.

I pricked out the seeds and placed in some screened compost. I cannot stress enough how important it is to spray the growing medium with a fungicide to prevent Dampening Off Disease. Even using sterile mediums like perlite and vermiculite wont guarantee that the fungus will not be present. I lost god knows how many seedlings before I found out what was killing them.

Hope that's of some help.

All the best,

Aaron

__________________
Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail. - Muriel Strode

Vulpes pilum mutat, non mores!

"A fox may change its skin but never its character"

drewhart

what kind of fungicide? can you buy some at a local garden center?

Aaron_K

Hi Drew,

Have a read up of this link. Lots of information regarding Dampening off symptoms and treatments.

All the best,

Aaron

__________________
Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail. - Muriel Strode

Vulpes pilum mutat, non mores!

"A fox may change its skin but never its character"

ChrisM

i have personally had success keeping them in the fridge for two months, planting in small pots, keeping inside til the last frost, then placing outside. in fact, i am doing it again this year. unfortunatley, the last batch all died when i was on my honeymoon, and the neighbor thought they were weeds and didn't water them, but all the other trees got watered. easiest way to see what works for you is to use several seeds for each method. i do the same for trident maples, only they get three months in the fridge.

chris

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A bonsai is like a good marriage.You commit, for better or for worse, till death do you part. I DO!!!

MattPenton

Chris:

I live in southern california and have a bunch of Trident maple seeds. I have no experience with these, but according to your experience, should I put these in the fridge for 60 days in my climate, or can I get away with less? We typically get warm temps (60-70's) in Feb or Mar.
Does the success of seeds depend more on the stratifying or on the soil temps and after care?

Thanks for the info,

Matt

ChrisM

matt, it is my belief (untested of course since i have lived here all my life) that the length of the stratifying depends on the climate you are bringing the trees into. here in new england, we get a good five months of winter, most of which has been bitter cold (teens or less) the past few years. just a theory, but since your winter temp's don't get nearly as low on a regular basis, maybe you could do it in less time, but only if the dormant period out there isn't as long. my trees usually go dormant by early november and show no signs of coming out til somewhere in march. so i like to give my seeds half of that in a controlled environment (fridge) then into the shed where they can be potted and still expierience the chilly, early spring weather before completely moving outside after the last frost. maybe some of the guys from your side of the country can give more help on this.

chris

__________________
A bonsai is like a good marriage.You commit, for better or for worse, till death do you part. I DO!!!

OKbonsai

If you are going to grow trees from seed I would recommend that you get the book "The Reference Manual of Woody Plant Propagation" by Michael Dirr and Charles Heuser, a very valuable and helpful book. Another book I use but a less user friendly is "Seeds of Woody Plants in North America" by Young and Young. I am in zone 7 as for Tridents, when I get my seeds I first place them in very hot water, not boiling, let them soak for 24 hours and then I place them in plastic bags with either moist spagnum or vermiculite and place them in cold storage for 60 to 90 days. This is what my seed source recommends. The recommended length is the same for all zones, as far as I know. The hot water treatment is used to help break down the hard seed coat. Not all trees have the same requirements that is why the books are important.

When I recieve my Japanese Black Pines I put them in cold storage with the tridents. They don't need any pregermination treatment but need the 30 to 60 day cold stratification treatment. I generally store them in plastic bags.

I plant the seeds outdoors in seed beds and it is usually well after the last chance of frost is past. I like the sand in my seed beds warm to hurry up germination plus by the time I get my 60 to 90 days in it is usually May or later.

I have been growing trees from seed for bonsai many years and before that I worked for the State of Oklahoma at their tree farm. And while I would not call myself an expert I have learned a lot through the years and have been very successful here at the nursery raising seedlings.

Frank

soonami

Stratification is effect for many types of tree seeds. Except for tropicals, most tree seeds benefits from stratification because often seeds contain enzymes that inhibit germination until certain temperature barriers are overcome before seedlings can emerge. If nothing else, putting seeds in the fridge will allow you too germinate them all at about the same time so you don't have some break early and some taking weeks or months longer.

Some seeds that you buy may already come from dealers stratified and read to sow as refrigeration is often needed to maintain the viability of seed.