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25-Nov-2005
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#1 |
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bonsaiTALK Master
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Fun Seeds
First of all, happy thanksgiving to all the US bonsai talkers. Today, went on it's annual hike once the turkey was stuffed and in the oven. On this hike i collected some seeds from a tree that I've been interested in growing into a bonsai, but I've been unable to successfully collect a tree.
I collected about 40 seeds from several different Mountain Mahogany trees, Cercocarpus Montanus. I've heard the reasons against using seed to create bonsai, but every specimen with any potential that I've seen would be impossible to collect without considerable damaging the tree or the surrounding environment. I'm only 23 so I might see something happen wiht it in my lifetime. I'll attach some pictures of the seeds tomorrow. I've never seen a bonsai made out of this tree. It looks like it has a lot of potential, as a species. I'd like to see more native american species used in bonsai culture. Cord |
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25-Nov-2005
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#2 | |
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bonsaiTALK ArchMaster
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Quote:
Before you dismiss altogether the idea of collecting one of these trees you should explore around your state and see if anyone doing bonsai has had success collecting them, if so how did they do it. You can collect anything if it is done right----pretty much. As to harming the environment? A hole dug in the ground is not going to substantially harm the environment, especially if you fill it in. You do more harm to the environment by belching and breaking wind.
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The only finished bonsai is a dead one; me 1992 MABA Des Moines Iowa |
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25-Nov-2005
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#3 |
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bonsaiTALK Master Chief
 
Join Date: Aug-2004
Location: Aberystwyth Uni
Country: Wales
USDA Zone: 8
AHS Heat Zone: 0-1
Posts: 1,101
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And you can always plant a seediling in the ground where you collected the tree from, that way you aren't going to be accused of small scale deforestation lol.
Al
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I can feel another "I wish that was my tree" moment coming on... Currently studying BSc Plant Biology at the Universty of Wales, Aberystwyth |
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25-Nov-2005
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#4 |
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bonsaiTALK Master
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The problem with collecting the the wild plant is that, one they grow as a bush. Around here we don't have the environment to allow them to grow as a tree naturally. Two, They are very deep rooting. Three, they tend to grow in the cracks between the rocks. So to collect one would require chiselling it out of the very living rock. I'm sure collecting is not impossible, but it is difficult around me. Given that these plants are really widespread across the western US, I would be suprised that they aren't collected.
http://medplant.nmsu.edu/mahogany.htm Here's a link to the NMSU medicinal plant database. It has some good pictures of the seeds which are what I'm most interested in from a bonsai perspective. The seeds have a hairy, curly tail that allows them to be wind distributed. Once the seeds form they almost look like snow on the branches. Tell me what you think. Cord |
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25-Nov-2005
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#5 |
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bonsaiTALK Master Craftsman
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Cord, there's a gentleman that used to post over at GardenWeb's BonsaiForum. I think his user name was 'gregb', but I'm not positive. He has a number of desert plants not normally seen in bonsai, including Mountain Mahogany. He is also in NM or Arizona I think.You might try a post over there and see if he answers. His were collected plants.
Good luck, zube
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Sorry doesn't put thumbs back on the hand, Marge. H. Simpson |
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25-Nov-2005
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#7 |
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bonsaiTALK Master
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thanks for the tip. I sent hi a PM. hopefully he'll have some tips or pictures
Cord |
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28-Nov-2005
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#8 |
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bonsaiTALK Master
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I recieved some good advice from gregb. I think the species definitely has potential, but I've been unable to find any examples of it as a bonsai. It has smal leaves, I'd assume it back buds well since it is common deer browse.
The shrub grows naturally from oklahoma to catalina island, so If i can;t find on to collect someone with more skill and a better eye should be able to. cord |
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4-Dec-2005
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#9 |
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bonsaiTALK Master
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Germination Procedure.
I soaked the seeds in Hydrogen Peroxide for 24 hrs. This should help break the dormancy. right now I'm cold storing the seeds in a paper bag in my refridgerator for 30 to 60 days.
After the holidays I plan on coming home to plant the seeds in my mom's green house. she has a warming pad that should trick the seeds into thinking that it's spring. Apparently Cercocarpus Montanus is extremely dormant, and as a result has a low germination rate. Hopefully out of the 30 or so seeds I'll have a few that I'll be able to plant in the ground out in my parent's land. From there I'll be able to train them in ground over the next few years, as I'm applying to law school. with some luck, I'll be able to give myself some nice potensai as a graduation present. I'll post pictures after the holidays if anyone is curious. Cord |
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4-Dec-2005
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#10 |
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bonsaiTALK ArchMaster
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"And you can always plant a seediling in the ground where you collected the tree from, that way you aren't going to be accused of small scale deforestation lol."
Planting a seedling in the wild to replace a collected tree is a nice idea, but in practicality, it might not be the best thing to do. You are introducing an "alien" plant--even if it's the same species (unless the replacement has been collected nearby, or if you've grown the replacement from seed from the same area). This seems minor, but the plants that live in one area have developed there for some time and adapted to the local microclimate. You're "watering down the gene pool" with possibly inferior (or superior) plants. Inferior plants will weaken the native stock. Superior ones will overrun them, over time. Planting a seedling has more far-reaching implications that removing the original plant. Nature has a way of filling vacuums. The space left vacant by the collected tree will be reclaimed by nature. FILL IN THE HOLE though. If you must grow seeds, grow them  . You are optimistic that you will have anything of consequence within two decades. This is the slow lane to bonsai. Some like to go (very) slowly. Others want to do bonsai. A faster, probably more satisfying, solution would be to buy larger native plants at local nurseries, especially nurseries that specialize in such things. Desert landscaping, or xeriscaping, is a big deal in the SW, as water becomes scarcer in that part of the world. Specialist nurseries aren't all that uncommon. Here's one:http://www.greatoutdoorsabq.com/list.htm |
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