Tree of the Day - Thursday August 11, 2005

John Dixon

Al,

Those were great posts!!! That is exactly what the TOD thread needs to do. It has provoked artistic thought. You took it to the level it needs to be, by including explanations and visual reference to what you are discussing. Now, a potential change for this rock planting is presented with data to support the theory. Therein lies the spirit of the TOD thread. Well done Al.

I think it is important to say something here. I have been a little disappointed by the lack of TOD subjects recently. I had a couple of PM's with Matt about it, and it became apparent that the "lack" was due to no submissions being made. I find this difficult to understand. It seems that there are many bonsaists out there who have the ability to take photos. Certainly the opportunity it there. Is it a matter of not being able to accept criticism? That doesn't jive, since the "owner/artist" isn't mentioned in the thread. Surely people can take criticism in that situation. If not, I feel sorry for them. That's an intergral part of bonsai. That's a situation I would like to see improvement in. The only way I know to initiate such discussion is to "throw your hat in the ring". Well, I did. This rock planting is mine.

I made this composition around five years ago. At the time, I was happy with the design and the growth of the three year old shimpaku. I wired them and just let them grow. Other projects took over, and this planting was ignored. This spring, I saw wires digging in, so I removed them. I did a little pinching back, pruning, etc., and decided to get back around to working on it. Well, in July I was taking some pictures, and the thought occurred to me to submit it to Matt for TOD or possibly Ian for ATM. It is NOT up to ATM, and I never thought so for a second. But both threads have had little in the way of submissions, and that was a shame. It was decided to go with TOD as most appropriate.

The trees are too busy. I re-wired the top right tree to see how a windswept look would change the design. It had promise, but it complicated the overall compatibilty of the composition. lots of feather rock can be removed, of that I was certain, but I did not want to lose the "softness" of the background. More ground cover was also necessary. I saw a lot of other things too. Then I remembered a post I had made on a San Jose (you were very active there) and a reply by our friend, heymikey. He had mentioned a design change for that bonsai, that I had never considered. Posting the tree had made that possible, so I felt this planting could also benefit for such on-line discussion.

Now, this time, you have come up with the answer for me. The last virtual you posted is the way I'm going to go. The other posts were also helpful, but as soon as I saw yours, I knew that was the way to proceed. It adds drama, but keeps a somewhat "soft" appearance. It's the perfect direction to take.

Thanks Al. I appreciate your efforts here. I hope others will see the benefit of this thread and submit bonsai of their own. Submit it with an open mind and you may get amazed by what can become obvious through TOD.

Warmest regards,

John

__________________
John Dixon

Si vis pacem parabellum

Stay off the trails of others, that's where the booby-traps are.

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bonsaial1

This is the most important thing said here today. This relates to any information post as well. I feel perfectly confident in accepting any critique thrown at me from any perspective on any work I do. I have the confidence in my work to accept the challenge. There are those that see it as a personal attack, or thread hijacking, or any other way that person sees it. You are right, rather than accept the percieved attack, probe for answers and ask questions back, the thread then gets hopelessly off the track with defensive measures about personal attacks, thread hijacking, read my post, and a myriad of other answers that don't have anything to do with bettering the art in the matter it could have gone if they had just accepted the fact that there may be someone out there with a modicum more knowledge than they have.

With that out of the way, Thanks John. It was not hard to read thru the veiled attempt of a little defensiveness in your first response to my initial critique. I owed you more. In all fairness, I enjoyed the bantor due to the fact that you have been a prince thru all the postings that you have made in which I have been less than cooperative in your personal view of the material. You have handled the critique like a man, been a stand up guy, and hopefully we have both learned something from the exchange. I know I did.

Thankfully you enjoyed the work, wich by the way represents 3.5 hours work to get that rock like that. Took me half an hour to find the right pot, in a picture large enough to not pixalate during the enlarging process. I found the exercise very gratifying. I now know how Dr. Frankensteen (smile when you say that) must have felt!

I feel very humbled that you are energised to take this work in a different direction, and am looking forward to its future progress. Too bad we could not meet in a couple weeks during the BTBBQ, we could carve that stone and shape those trees together! I would love nothing more...

Respectfully, Al

__________________
I been kidding the last seven years.
no.... really!

Newt

First off great thread! I love what Al has come up with.

While following the thread I found that those on the west coast (read Rocky Mountains) did not like the rock/composition and those on the lower east coast (read Smoky Mountains) were more accepting (generalized statement). The origional, though maybe not remarkable, really takes me back to the Smokies! The Smoky Mountains though not as grand and aweinspiring as the Rockies still hold a magic and power of their own. They do appear more soft and worn. Since this is where the composition origionated I can see why.

"Is this meant to be a mountain peak scene battered by high winds? Or is this a more a hill top, lower down the mountainside, with lush plentiful foliage, trees in a tranquil form and the rock face eroded by rainwater/melted snow washing down from the upper reaches?"

Can't it be a foothills/lowland area that gets high wind? I know I don't live in the mountains but still get high wind from time to time (though due to the trunk angles this would not be a time to time wind). Also depending on the direction of a valley, it can channel the wind or it could be allong the coast.

Anyway, just threw that out there for thought. I do like Al's virt, although I would like the origional as well with just more work on the trees.

Newt

__________________
Opportunity must not be lost while the gods smile.
-Li Jing

bonsaial1

Hi Newt, while I appreciate your comments about comparing the original with the latter, there is a very important element your are missing.

That element is trying to justify work. ( Man John, I am so sorry to have to dredge this all back up, but I feel that using this thread to make this point is worth it. Please stay with me here.)

Johns composition as done presently is fine with me. If it is fine for him it is fine for me. We live 3000 miles apart and can never benifit from each others expertise except thru the medium of internet. With that said, in the big picture of submittting work for critique, one opens them self up to good and bad. It is up to the artist to engage the bad and move in a direction to improve it, or continue with the piece figuring it is good due to false praise.

If you remember in one of John's previous posts about the juniper that had been topped and one branch had been bent down to make the bonsai. I said it was ugly basicly. Redpine felt it was good because it had reminded him of tree battered in a hurricane. In theory, I have no quarrel with Redpines assesment of windbattered trees due to a hurricane. With all due respect I am sure that John's tree did remind him of a hurricane battered tree in a hurricane since nature is not always artistic in the way she tears something up.

The point is not to make something less than evocative and justify the work by saying that you have seen the exact same less than evocative thing in nature. That is not what bonsai is about. Bonsai is about an artistic representation of trees seen in nature. We don't see pine tree styled maples in nature, but we can represent a maple tree, and render it artistic by applying the looks of a beautiful pine tree to it.

Mike Page showed us a rock planting with small boxwoods. They were styled in groups that looked like the oaks along a beautiful highway in California. Without prior knowledge of his display I had said that it reminded me of that highway. The display communicated that message to me. Mike agreed that his inspiration for boxwoods was due to that scenic driving area.

While this planting above may make some feel that it too reminds them of a place they have been, that alone is not always the exact criteria that makes a bonsai a bonsai. It must still be held to rules of artistry, and must stay true to being evocative.

Thanks, Al

__________________
I been kidding the last seven years.
no.... really!

Newt

Thanks for all the time you have poored into this thread Al! Very informative!!!

Newt

__________________
Opportunity must not be lost while the gods smile.
-Li Jing

Will_Heath

Although some of your posts on this thread have been excellent, I disagree with the above statements that you have made. Claiming that a Kusamono should be an alpine plant or a rare plant is akin to saying that only native Japanese trees can be bonsai.

With Kusamono, it is not the plant, it's not the rarity, it's not the country of origin that makes it successful, it is simply the image it presents. Smoke and mirrors Al, it's not the material, it's the way the material is presented that makes or breaks a Kusomono.

Accent plants are another matter as the material chosen should tell the same story as the item it is accenting. The accent should show the same season as the item it is accenting. The accent should talk to the item it is accenting, it should be on a lower plane than the item it is accenting, and it should not steal the display.

A Kusomono on the other hand is the show. A rare Orchid or a common nursery plant both have beauty, an artist can bring out the beauty of either.

Historically only grasses were used for Kusomono, hence the translation of "Grass Thing." Thankfully, someone broke that boundary and now many types of plants are successfully used for Kusomono, mixed plantings are widely accepted and growing in popularity, yes, even one of the fellows out a color six pack can make a successful Kusomono in the right hands.

In example take Wolfgang's Gallery of Kusomono which contains such Walmart fair as Hostas and chicks and hens, imagine that.


Will Heath

John Dixon

Al,

Ouch!!!! I won't be able to sit down for a while now!!!

Seriously, it's okay. I submitted this (rock planting) composition knowing that it had faults. The other bonsai you mentioned appeals to a lot of people. Everyone who has seen it "in person" either had positive remarks, or said nothing. I guess that could be inferred that they were either trying to be polite or were scared I'd want to "duke it out" . I'm completely at peace with it, and if it helps you to explain your opinion(s), have at it. You have carte blanche (or however you spell it).

I'm glad to see a good discussion on TOD. That is a great thing.

Best regards ya'll,

John

__________________
John Dixon

Si vis pacem parabellum

Stay off the trails of others, that's where the booby-traps are.

bonsaial1

Will, I'm with ya man. It's all about the artistic touch. It is exactly about the smoke and mirrors. It is the same as the rocks. Putting the technique to something that is less than perfect and making it something more.

I din't know about you but I am talking about those that take a pretty lobelia out of a six pack and stuf it into a pot and say "presto" that is all. My accents are neither rare nor imported, but they look like they are!

__________________
I been kidding the last seven years.
no.... really!

Will_Heath

And that my friend, is what we all strive for, the illusion.

Well put and well spoken, I wish I would have said it.


Thanks,

Will