Display for Critique #2

FlyBri

Gday team!

Like Anttal, I know less about formal displays than I do about most stuff, so please take this with a grain of salt. Taking the available elements, I virted (pardon me )...

How many rules am I breaking here?

Thanks.

Fly.

PS: I tried to submit this earlier today, before there were any other comments, but the Internet was broken. Once I post this, I intend to read all the new posts to see if I am completely off track...

PPS: John - I've been trying to view your video critique, but to no avail. My browser is usually pretty good with Flash objects and the like, but no luck here... Any thoughts?

Attached Images

KC_Formal_Virt_1.jpg (71.9 KB, 20 views)

__________________
Australian Native Plants as Bonsai Study Group
ANPB Galleries
---
rrr.org.au - Support Free-Range Radio

Advertisement

mike_p

Fly, put the tree on the left on the right and the tree on the right on the left
and toss the accent.

SAY WHAT??!!

__________________
Bonsai is not a hobby.
Bonsai is a way of life.
MP@BBB Studio

There is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way
Gautama Buddha

Mindcrime

Ok, here goes:

The whole compisition is basically a perfect triangle where the "sharpest" point is located beside the accent. This leads the eye to the point where there's absolutely nothing going on. Without something to bring the eye back into the composition is becomes one of those cases where the elements lead the eye out of the "frame" wich is a huge no-no in traditional art. As for the trees themselves, maybe I'm completely way off but the main tree is seriously lacking any kind of unity. The branches lean upwards on one side and down on the other. The trunk leans one way but the branches wants to go the other. Some areas of foliage are flat underneath while other aren't. Maybe the individual trees aren't as important in a display as if the were shown separately but it really bothers me to the point where I simply can't ignore it.

Like someone said, I think this display would have looked better with the smaller tree looking back on the main tree and if the accent were replaced with a scroll.

Behr,
I really respect your experience, if you're an encyklopedia bonsaiwise I'm a brochure or a pamphlet, but I really disagree with your statement that trees with a lot of character are much too strong to be paired with other elements. As far as I know there's simply no esthetic reason why they couldn't. I would really like it if you could elaborate on this so I don't put words in your mouth if I don't get what you're saying!

__________________
If you can read this you don't need glasses.

JohnG

If you are having trouble, try going to Adobe and downloading the latest plugin for your browser...took about 60 seconds last time I updated and I am on DSL lite...Like Chris I live in the country and my choices are very limited and much more expensive than intown access.

The file is only about 3mb...so as long as you do have reasonable access it should stream fine... Chris I would not even try it on dialup ...and don't get too excited...its nothing that great...I just thought it might get some feedback.
John

__________________
Bonsai Journeys
My Trees and Stones
My Garden Blog

anttal63

fly that is a very interesting rearrangement i like it. the way it pulls the eye back to the left works for me.

__________________
Antonio . . .
------------------------------------

grampz

Mr. Chris, I realize this is not 2 separate displays due to the lack of the bamboo between them, but perhaps someone just forgot to put the bamboo where they should...Just a feeble attempt at humor...

Mr. Emil, as I stated my thoughts on display are not worth the 'proverbial two cents', or not worth the web space they consume...I am totally self taught, I have never studied in Japan or any where else, until I joined a club about 3 years ago I had read very few books on bonsai, I have never taken a workshop although I have observed two or three, and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of demonstrations of 'recognized' bonsai professionals I have had the opportunity to witness...So, although I am humbled by your reference to my bonsai “encyklopedia” experience, I must disagree...Thank you though for the compliment...

Concerning your question, it is certainly nothing but a personal opinion...I have not read or heard this proclaimed by anyone...It is not worth arguing about or even explaining, however I will attempt to share some of the reasoning that brought me to this conclusion...

Everyone must come to their own conclusions about bonsai and display, or choose to follow the teachings which have been passed down through the years...For me the former is more appropriate...I have long been intrigued by the work of the Chinese, Korean, Taiwanese, Indonesian, and European bonsai...These trees seem to speak to me in ways that the Japanese trees don't...I have even ask myself the question “If the Japanese received the concept of bonsai from the Chinese, why do their trees not have the character and strength of the Chinese trees?...Why are they not memorable trees?...Please do not mis-understand me, I do appreciate the Japanese work, and I have a great admiration for many of the trees from Japan, but I do not find them in most cases to be memorable trees...There are always exceptions when speaking in generalizations, but I find most of them are much too 'predictable' and 'idealized' to evoke much emotion in me, therefore I find it difficult to form a mental picture of the trees without having them to look at...In most cases I only have a vision of a well tapered trunk with a 'green helmet' sitting on top...

When I had the privilege to view photos of some of the earlier trees from Japan I was amazed at how different they were to what is generally being produced now...These trees were much more like the Chinese trees...I fully realize from many years of learning and teaching music that the easiest method of teaching any 'art form' is to reduce it to the simplest form with rules and technique, reduce it to a craft if you will, and so it is too with bonsai...

Mr. Andy Rutledge, whom I have a great respect for, but seldom agree with, made a statement on this forum which hurt me deeply when I first heard it...He basically stated that bonsai is display...It is not the tree, it is the display...I must admit I struggled with this for quite some time...I could not accept the fact that my trees were not bonsai, even though I did not like to use the term bonsai when referring to my trees, and preferred to call them 'artistic potted trees'...I later read some writings of Mr. Andy on this subject, and still had a difficult time with it...

The light came on for me about this time last year when photos were shared on many forums of the BIB show...In excess of a week, every forum I visited had more photos of the show, and I did enjoy them...Let me say I do appreciate what Mr. Boon and his followers are doing for bonsai in the United States...Along with many others, especially on the West coast, they are spreading the 'joy of bonsai', and helping it to become more accepted in this country...After a couple weeks of not seeing the photos I realized, among all the good trees in the show I only had a mental picture of two of them...One was a multi-trunk cascade which was so butt-ugly, in my opinion, that I really liked it...It was different than what I was used to, something new and innovative...The other was a pine, I believe shohin which was cussed and discussed so much on the IBC forum that I could remember it...I thought about what Mr. Andy had said concerning display...Perhaps he was correct after all...There were some excellent displays in this show...Some probably would have even made the experts on Japanese display take a second look...But for me at least, the trees, while certainly good trees, were not extremely strong trees...They did not have the character which evoked emotion in me, and caused me to form a mental picture of the tree...Why was this?...Was it just me?...

I tried to research this, to find answers...I searched for examples of Japanese display, and attempted to analyze them...I found in most cases, my thoughts on weaker trees being used for display purposes seemed to hold water...One Japanese artist I regard highly is Mr. Kimura...This artist creates some very strong trees, yet most all photos I find of his work is not in a display setting...Why is this?...Mr. Robert Steven creates many very powerfully strong trees, yet seldom presented in a formal or informal display setting...Why?...Mr. Walter Pall is certainly one of my favorite artists because of the visually strong trees he creates, yet he too does not choose to use the formal display, preferring to exhibit the tree and allow the merits of the tree to speak...They do speak very loudly in most cases...Much too loudly to be part of a display due to the other elements taking away from the strength of the tree...

I have also often questioned why the tendency to use pots which were so 'plain' or inconspicuous, bordering on dull and ugly...I do not even have a good start on understanding the 'Eastern' culture and art, but I am aware that simplicity does play a great part in both, and this seems to be even more prominent in the Japanese culture...Could it be that these beautiful ornate pots would compete far too much with trees which are created to be used in display?...

Mr. Bill Valavanis posted some photos on the IBC forum of a book he had acquired of the first Kokufu Ten display along side many of the same trees in later shows...To me it was almost sad to see how trees which were once extremely moving trees had become just another trunk with a 'green helmet'...Could it be a result of the emphasis placed on display?...Is it possible that the Japanese have placed such importance on the display, that the trees have been groomed in such a way that they do not compete with other elements, but contribute to the overall picture or feeling of the display?...Is bonsai display?...Perhaps Mr. Andy was correct in his statement...Perhaps the prominence of display, and the desire to have equally strong elements is the reasoning behind the evolution of trees in Japan...

As I stated, these thoughts are only my opinion, and are certainly not based on what others have said or written...In fact, it is not something I even feel strongly enough about to wage a good argument...I am still learning, and trying to understand these things...It is my hope, that through knowledge and understanding, I can create better trees...Not all of my trees have enough character to stand well alone, and therefore I must find a method to display these trees to bring out the best of the tree...Formal or informal Japanese display is not an option I choose, so I look to other sources...I do look forward to learning what others have to say on this subject...We can all learn together...

Regards
Behr

__________________
As the Master departed the workshop,
he could have sworn he heard some
one saying rather loudly...
"I thought he would never leave"
San Antonio Bonsai Society, Inc.

bonsaikc

Behr,
Thank you for this extremely well thought out and wonderfully expressed critique of the entire process. You have given me a great deal to think about.

I do, however, have to disagree very strongly with a couple of your statements.


Funny thing about people...still waters run deep. The guy who rarely speaks up certainly gets an audience when he is moved to speak. And I think you have earned your audience. I know you hold a lower opinion of your opinion than others do, and you do not say these things out of a false humility. But come on, man, speak your mind! We always want to see your trees and we always want to hear your opinion. Yours is one I value above almost all others. Thank you.

__________________
Sashi-no-eda.blogspot.com

Vonsgardens

Behr,
Enjoyed the insight ito your perspective. While I disagree on a number of points because of differences in styles that I prefer, I appreciate your perspective. The massive trees of Kimura and others don't require a "display", and are frequently placed out on their own. The BIB exhibition is fully dependent on presentation. I believe that it is the best presented show top to bottom that I have seen in the US, and I think in many ways it was better than Ginko. That doesn't mean that all of the trees were better, but that the presentation is. (The Olives at Ginko last year were superb and their presentation was exquisite).

Boon places a tremendous amount of importance on presentation. That is, is the tree presented to the best of its potential? The buzz of the 12 hours of set up are something to behold, there are 100+ trees, hundreds of accents and a vast collection of stands, slabs and other accoutrrments of the show. It is a large and collective experience, the members share stands and accents and the overall good of the show is paramount. Further, the members of the club pull out their judging sheets and pick the "Members Choice' awards for "best' trees in the show. truly an experience that I had not seen in typical "club" bonsai.

I like the simplicity of the chinese trees, however personally I prefer the abstract and highly structured nature of the Japanese masterpieces Just a slight difference in perspective,

john

__________________
"Wiring is simple; However, it is not easy to do it right" Boon

Myrtle

I'm sure I know the very least about formal displays, but that doesn't keep me from trying.

Here's what I got.

Everything kinda goes to the left, maybe too much.

I really like the "spooky" feel of the main tree. Tilted upright, I think it looks much better.

Attached Images

dis2.JPG (49.4 KB, 11 views)