Over here, sifting through other people's rubbish bins is seen as a rare obsessive-compulsive disorder.

I'm with Adam - support your bonsai dealers!

Regards,

Fish.

some observations...

Check through the top 10 entries from the latest contest and see how many plants came from regular, 'common or garden' garden centres, and how many came from bonsai stockists.

(as an aside, in the UK a nursery differs from a garden centre. Nurseries will have larger stock, more suited to landscape planting and the price reflects this. Garden centres are aimed at 'weekend' type consumers, who mostly want small plants for their garden with the occasional large plant here and there. I get the feeling that this is different in the US?)

After the last contest, where I trawled round more than a dozen garden centres/nurseries, I arrived at the conclusion that these places were no good for bonsai stock at all. Maybe I was being too fussy, perhaps I didn't look hard enough. I don't think so though.

My Point? Don't expect to fall over a stunning piece of material when visiting garden centres. In fact, don't even expect to find any mediocre material even after inspecting every plant in the place.

BTW Will, you really do need to practice what you preach, mate. Ron is only offering his point of view on this subject, nothing more. No need to go getting all defensive

Regards,

Chris.

Newt,

Excellent examples, thank you!

Note:

This thread had the sole intent of showing how to look at nurseries and how to find stock while cultivating relationships that will save you time and money. Like it or not, many people still frequent nurseries and box stores. I learned how to look from articles by others and by experience. Vance Wood is a hero of mine for his nursery finds.

Nowhere did I mention that you should ignore your local bonsai shops or that you should refrain from buying quality stock. As far as throw aways go and dumpsters,...I wouldn't refuse to pick up a hundred dollar bill blowing in the wind, I sure won't past up a 4' Japanese maple that has been tossed because the leaves got scorched.

And the "opinion" that picking up a plant that was tossed makes the plant and/or you trash, is simply ludicrous.

Shop, nursery, box store, dumpster, collecting, importing, master, who cares where...just do it!

Will heath

Nice point Will, about not letting an oportunity go by. "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." You never know what you're missing when you don't even bother to look.

-Audric

San Jose Juniper. WBC2002. From nursery stock.
My only point is that bonsai, like love, is where you find it. Whether it's successful or not depends on you and time.

Mike

Attached Images

sanjosewbc.jpg (62.6 KB, 161 views)

Its like the old saying "One mans trash is another mans treasure", and Newt has a prime example of this.

Its well worth going to garden centres and nurseries, as sometimes they keep "reject" stock out the back. These "rejects" are often what we as bonsai enthusiasts are looking. Trees that have an unusual taper or split trunks. So its well worth just asking.

I just picked up 10 Hornbeam trees all between 60cm - 80cm, that were left over from someones hedging project on ebay. At 80p a tree delivered (about $1.50) I thought what the hell - might be something useful in there. The tree's turned up this morning and I am absolutely delighted with them. A couple will make very handsome examples in a couple of years.

Good raw material can turn up anywhere, so I wouldnt dismiss any potential source.

Wow, well said, so well in fact, that I had to nominate it in the quotes thread.


Beautifully put,

Will

Thanks, Will.

Mike

For what it's worth bonsai nurseries are generally not my first choice for obtaining material. I prefer the home landscape nursery. You are likely to find much better material that someone who knows a little something about bonsai has not identified and marked up for that reason. I am including two photos of a nursery tree I found while on hands and knees in a local nursery. The tree was initially styled in May of 2002 at a 4 season's bonsai club demonstration.

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	MugoB4IV.jpg (66.7 KB, 135 views)
	Mugo02demojpg.jpg (68.9 KB, 199 views)

Ron makes a good point about dumpsters, though. The mindset of searching for trash to turn into bonsai is wrong. That will indeed lead directly to trashy bonsai. What you should look for in a dumpster are plants that are perfectly suited to bonsai and were thrown away out of ignorance. A stubby, broken mugho pine with a 3'' trunk is exactly the kind of thing a garden center would throw out because they think it wouldn't sell. It's not a question of health, just rent. If the time the plant has to sit there and take up space costs more than the money that will be made on the purchase , the plant goes bye-bye. That is the time when bonsaiists should swoop in.

Chris, in the US, we have four distinct types of stores.

1) Bonsai Nurseries: The good ones purchase raw material, then sit on it and allow it to grow, thicken, ramify, etc. before it is put out for sale. Many of these trees are also pre-styled. If you can afford it, these are where you find the best raw material. Price tag (for comparison): 5-20 x Normal

2) Plant Nurseries: These are where you find the best affordable raw material. The plants found are usually professional landscape plants. This is where you find 25-gallon stock trees, 12-foot tall landscape trees, 3' wide shrubbery, as well as a large selection of tropicals sold as houseplants. Price tag: 2-3 x Normal

3) Home Improvement Garden Centers: Home Depot and Lowe's are the big ones. The likelihood of finding quality stock here is minimal, but the cost justifies at least taking a look once a week or so. Spend an hour outside, poking and prodding. This is the store most likely to put perfectly good stock in the dumpster. The staff usually knows very little about horticulture in general, so don't expect much. Price Tag: Normal

4) Big Box Stores: Wal-mart is the first one to everyone's mind. Just about the only thing worthwhile you can find here are stumps for carving. The employees know nothing, including the price most of the time. Only worth the trip if you have to go there anyway and the regular checkout lines are so long you go to checkout at the garden center counter. Price Tag: 1/2 to 2/3 x Normal

I expect most people (like me) spend most of their time at #2. The cost/value ratio is pretty high. You will almost never find Bonsai nursery-quality stock, but most people I think (like me) recognize that $200-300 is a lot of money to spend on something we might kill through ignorance. Better to spend a lot less money on a tree that we can be proud of and not mourn too much if it dies. I for one don't have a lot of money to be spending on highest-quality, pre-styled bonsai. What I do have is a lot of time and enthusiasm. I still shop at bonsai nurseries. Where else to buy tools and pots? But I am just not ready for those high-end trees, especially when I know that someone better than me can turn them into something really spectacular.

I used to work at a high-end aquarium store and have seen it happen a million times. Someone spends so much money on their tank that it means a little too much to them. Then something catastrophic happens, they lose their investment, and never return to the hobby. It is a real tragedy. Don't let this happen to you! Will started this thread for people who can't afford bonsai nurseries, it's obvious. Those kind of people (me) need to be sure not to overspend themselves just to get that Have-To-Have-It-Now Trident. If you lose it later, it hurts waaaaay too much. Those plants will be around for years to come. Be patient, and nurture yourself as well as your plants.

Another long-winded reply from the Frog.

Copyright 2004. Any replication, duplication, publication, or otherwise unauthorized use of this monologue without the express written consent of the author is prohibited. Some rules and restrictions may apply. See contest rules for entry.