Why Not Use Organic Fertilizer After Repotting?

BonsaiBen

I have seen people reccomend against fertilizing after repotting so not to burn the roots and that makes some sense when using inorganic chemical fertilizers. My question however is why not feed with organics after repotting?

It has always been my understanding that the trees only use the nutrients from the organics as they need them and as they break down. I have also read time and time again that it is almost impossible to burn roots with organics.

So what is the logical explanation for people reccomending against using organic fertilizer right after repotting?

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TreeBay

Bone meal is a good plan after repotting. NPK ~ 0-10-0 Phosphorus is a good additive to promote strong root growth.

http://www.vitasoil.com/bone%20main.htm

http://www.westsidegardener.com/howto/fertilizer.html

I usually don't fertilize established bonsai a heck of a lot in late winter and early spring when I do most of my repotting. The spring flush of growth is already more than I can handle. After pinching begins, I usually come on strong into the defoliation period in early summer.

Regards,

Matt

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BonsaiBen

So are you pretty much saying that it is good to use organics when repotting?

This year I added a product from espoma called "garden-tone" to my soil. It is 4-6-6 and made up of a variety of organics like manure, crab meal, bone meal, kelp meal, dried blood, and many others.

I dont really have any trees that are already bonsai. They are all potensai and I just want them to get nice and fat this season. The reason I bring this up is with that in mind, I dont want to wait another couple of weeks before feeding them more. Would it hurt to hit them now with the fish emulsion if I just repotted the most recent one a week and a half ago?

On a side note, I plan to alternate between a 5-1-1 fish emulsion and a 20-20-20 Peters inorganic, both with superthrive added. I am thinking about doing this with every watering (using one or the other). Is this overkilll? I am growing a Old Gold Juniper and a Seiju Elm.

TreeBay

I recommend using phosphate after repotting. Actually, the source of the phosphate doesn't matter much. It could be bones, superphosphate, bat guano (Colombian or Jamaican) or something from a test tube.

IN general fertilization practice really depends on your soil construction and watering habits as much as what you are growing. Technical things like pH and CEC ratio may play into the equation.

1. I would hesitate to make any real specific recommendations as to what you should do, except to say "DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME WITH OLD GOLD JUNIPER UNLESS IT IS A 50 YEAR-OLD STUMP COLLECTED WITH A FORKLIFT, TWO MEN AND A BOY" But I am not so opinionated as to say anything like that.

2. I think Superthrive ( in and of itself) is overkill, read the packaging

3. Your fertilization regimen sounds aggressive, but I don't know what concentration you're talking about applying with every watering. I would suggest you try one or the other at the recommended concentration when used once a week and then adjust the frequency of fertilization from there (more or less),

4. Experiment with using different fertilization regimens. Hit one plant weekly and another every other week. Keep notes and don't change things more frequently than once every month or two, or you'll never know what caused what.

Regards,

Matt

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BonsaiBen

Very interesting and also different from things that I have heard in the past. (As seems to always be the case with bonsai.)

The Elm is potted in a mixture of Miracle Grow potting soil and bonsai soil in a big pot. The juniper is in a 12" wide 5" deep bulb pot in miracle grow mixed with some bark.

Why is Superthrive overkill?

Why do you not like Old Gold Junipers? Is it the color you dont have a taste for?

Yes, I had planned on fertilizing aggressively for growing them out. I was planning on doing it at less than suggested strength but with every watering, and as I said switching from the fish goo to the Peters. Oh, and I forgot to mention adding more of this Garden-tone stuff to the soil every month or so. I had read that it is better to alternate fertilizers to give different trace elements and nutrients from the variety.

At first I had planned on just using the garden-tone and the fish emulsion and then switching to a no-nitrogen organic in the end of the summer. Then I decided to use the Peters as well to give it some extra ooomph.

Since I dont have two of the same tree, I cant really set up a controlled experiment, so that is why I was asking here.

I know you spoke about the phosphate which I have in the mix I put in the soil, but moving forward, do you think it is bad to start with the fish emulsion already?

I know it is a lot of questions and I thank you again for your answers.

TreeBay

There was a dead thread on another forum in which the author writes

'In Colin Lewis's The Art of Bonsai Design, Lewis claims, "They [Golden Junipers] are all weak growers and prone to all manner of infirmities. They respond poorly to pruning and wiring and, frankly, look sick"'

I know nothing about any health problems with them, but the foliage texture, color and growth habit offer little to advance their case, IMHO.

BTWm I ran across that thread awhile back doing a Google search on Sabina (tam) which has about the same reputation. You can read the thread by searching on "bad juniper species" in google and then click on the CACHED link next to the link of the same name.

It's hard to develop any expertise on a sample of one, but IMHO if you killed this Golden Oldie and had to buy something else to replace it (anything but a thuja that is) , you'd be that much ahead of the game.

I use organic fertilizers primarily for the health of the microorganisms in the soil. I don't see much point in mixing organic and inorganic fertilizers for that reason. Fish emulsion isn't going to hurt anything by itself, but what it's going to do in combination with all that other stuff is anyone's guess. Junipers are pretty tolerant but at some point you'll run into diminishing return and eventually, fertilizer burn.

Regards,

Matt

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BonsaiBen

I went to Barnes and Nobles but unfortunatley they didnt have Lewis' book. To be honest, I am not even sure if the Juniper I have is an Old Gold as when I bought it there was not tag on it and the guy at the nursery first said it was a Cypress and then decided it was an Old Gold. I should take some photos of it and post them to see if anyone can better identify it.

As far as your explanation on mixing organics and inorganics, I see no reason to believe that it would hurt the roots any more than inorganics on their own would. Wouldnt there be a chance that the organics would create healthy soil that slowly feeds the tree and the inorganics gives the roots additional feeding when they are applied, sort of force feeding the tree?

Thomas_J.

BonsaiBen,
Here's a real good article to read if you haven't alreadyRead This. I also use the Espoma fertilizer.

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TreeBay

I never said it would. I wrote that organic fertilizer is beneficial to the micro-organisms in the soil:

I use organic fertilizers primarily for the health of the microorganisms in the soil. I don't see much point in mixing organic and inorganic fertilizers for that reason.
To a large degree, adding chemical nitrogen negates that benefit.

Regards,

Matt

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