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#1 |
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bonsaiTALK Expert
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What To Use If I Don't Have Akadama And Other Soil Fetishes.
I've read a few books on soil and all of which doesn't tell me where to get the material.
I have the free draining part ... I also have peat moss for water retention (but apparently it's best to use something bigger in size?) I also use compost but I'm supposed to sieve this. Does ORGANIC material mean something that just breaks down? Or does it mean I have to use something that is like potting mix?? Could someone point this newbie to a link or give some adivce?? Here in australia, the potting mix consist of bark, sticks, clay and soil. SIDE QUESTION: If the water drains right thru to the bottom, when I water it in about 30seconds, does that mean whatever I'm using is ok anyway?
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"And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground-trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food." - Genesis 2:9 |
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#2 |
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Growing...
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You could sieve the smallest parts away fromt the local potting mix? Then you would have left some good drainign organic material.
You should sieve away parts that are smaller than 3mm or something similar. I think that organik material means "once alive". And it breaks down. Then you could allways order soils online? I am having the same problems. I will this year repot some of my trees and experiment with different soil mixes. It's hard to get good draining soil here where I live. This is what I have managed to get locally
The orchid soil has some really fine soil in it that I can sieve away.But it has allso really big bark pieces that I have to cut into smaller ones, and that takes alot of time. The Leca is the best soil improver i have. It some sort of fired clay. Ideal 4-6 mm pieces and cheap. Regular grit, you can find it anywhere, nothing fancy... The vermiculite looks silly in the soil because of its white color.Othervise it's good. This is what i ordered online:
I will see if I have any use of these soils. I will make my own mixes with these and see what's the best for me. The thing is that they are not cheap. Hopefully i will get some improvements with them. I have this far used a mix of orchid soil and Leca with some Vermiculite. It drains really good, but dries out too fast in the summer. Then I will also go to the local forest to get some soil, and hopefully getting some mychoriza with it to my pines. This is how my regular 40% Leca and 60%sieved orchid soil mix looks like, the pieces are between 3-6mm big.
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The journey of a thousand miles starts with a single cup of tea Last edited by Tiny-Plant : 25-Feb-2004 at 05:04 AM. |
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#3 | |
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Tips:5¢ Advice:Free
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Quote:
Around here vermiculite is gold and perlite is white. Vermiculte can be expanded or not expanded, but the color is about the same. Some photos of vermiculite in its various forms - unexpanded, expanded, magnified. ![]() I have found vermiculite much too light for bonsai soil. Sometimes I use it in cutting mix. Regards, Matt
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#4 |
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GUEST
Join Date: Jul-2002
Country: Australia
Posts: 291
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I am also dissapointed to find bags of potting mix marked "quality bonsai potting mix" for $15 that appear to be the same stuff in the budget potting mix for $3, the only difference being the label, I have taken to mixing my own, or if it's for large grow boxes I would simply use a good quality standard potting mix depending on the types of plants you are growing, most of mine are extremely hardy varieties like olive or ash, but I would say you would want be more fussy over your mixes for pines and other less tolerant species.
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#5 |
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bonsaiTALK Expert
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Thanks thats more helpful then the books so far. Does anyone here who live in Australia, or anyone else can tell me what materials I can get then? I've never seen vermiculite here? So I guess what I'm asking is, is there someone (preferably in australia), who can tell me where to buy, make or retrieve material as the ones the books and you guys are talking about? If someone can that would make a world of difference!!
Thanks!
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"And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground-trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food." - Genesis 2:9 |
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#6 |
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Tree herder
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There are a couple of potting mix threads here and here , look out for the references to John Innes potting compost. It is a type of mix, not a brand name, so it might be available where you are.
Regards, TB
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"Do not be hasty, that is my motto" -JRR Tolkien, The Two Towers. ----------------------------------- christopherguise.co.uk |
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#7 |
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bonsaiTALK Expert
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Thanks that was helpful...I am reading a book by Peter chan and he said that a good basic soil is 1/3 spagnum moss peat, 1/3 sand (2mm-5mm), and 1/3 ordinary garden loam (potting mix??)
I have been using this mix and my trees are growing fine...however, I ask these questions because I'm afriad of root rot. I will however look for the JI3 tomorrow, thanks heaps treebeard cos the loam part of the mix (potting mix) has mostly big pieces of bark (about 2cm-4cm) and small pieces of clay (about 1mm).
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"And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground-trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food." - Genesis 2:9 |
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#8 |
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bonsaiTALK Artisan
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Akadama is almost impossible to find in Moscow or very expensive. And due to the advice of one our bonsaist I add to the soil - maybe you will laugh - cat litter Kitty Friend. It is "composed of white clay granules from Senegal" and can be used as a "soil enchancer in a garden", as written on the pack. Unfortunatelly the granules is really of white colour. But as a addition for potensai soil it wouln't done matter. When I grow up real bonsai I'll try to find and Akadama and money for it
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#9 |
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BonsaiTalk Master B.S.er
Join Date: Jun-2002
Location: Richardson, Texas
Country: God Bless America
USDA Zone: 8
Posts: 1,285
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I am not overly thrilled with the resources that are available in my area to make soil with either. In my big grow tubs, I am currently using a 50-50 mixture of sifted hardwood mulch and pea gravel. I want to find a replacement for the pea gravel, it is to heavy. Lava rock would be great, but I have yet to locate a local source that has it small enough to use at a good bulk price. I am not going to pay shipping costs for a $50 bag, so the internet/mail order isn't going to work here.
In the bonsai pots, (which has far less soil and costs less), I can be a bit more choosey. I have been using the sifted hardwood mulch with akadama and vermiculite. I am always looking to improve this as well. |
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#10 |
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Banned 08JUN2005
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Greggles, bonsai soil mixes vary quite a bit, just as natural soils vary, and depend greatly on what's available locally. Most trees will do fine in a wide variety of mixes, just as they do fine in a wide variety of natural soils. Unless, of course, money is no object.
There are certain priciples, but you should spend some time wandering around local garden supply stores or just your own neighborhood seeing what's available, then collect some reasonable components, mix them together and see what you get. If it is roughly the consistency of medium sized gravel with a fair amount of mulch, compost or other organic material, drains quicklywhen watered and you like how it looks, you've got it. If there is a mistake that most of us make early on, it seems to be to make the mix too fine. I didn't realize for awhile that the "sand" often referred to in soil recipioes is actually gravel. Also, that the "sharper" the gravel, the better. Beyond that, the size of components is largely a matter of aesthetics. I use a mix of about half small lava rock (but include pea gravel, gravel that I collect beside the roads and anything else, such as aquarium gravel, that happens to turn up), 1/3 wood or bark based mulch (right now I'm using the material that was left after the workmen fine-chipped a bunch of tree limbs, mostly oak, that were left from some trees being cut down around my house. In the past I've used hard wood mulch, small pine bark, Cypress mulch; pretty much any thing that was around the right size) and 1/6 (or a little less) loam from my vegetable garden. This is about what John Naka recommends in "Bonsai Techniques I. I also add the old mix when I repot to my new mix, adjusting the components according to how the old mix looks. I do not bother to screen. Now, the fact is that alot of very expert bonsaists will disagree vehemently with what I am doing. The fact that what I am doing works very well is testament to the fact that as long as your mix drains well, is reasonably fertile and retains water within the non-mineral components, it will work and probably work well. So, my advice to you is to immediately step out and take action. Start trying things in order tp create a base of YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE! The trees want to be your partners and won't get mad at you if you make some mistakes. Just take your best shot; see how it works and make adjustments. In 2 or 3 years time, you'll know just as much as the rest of us about soils. Fred |
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