Soils: Any Opinions?

RonMartin(deceased)

As you can see my soil is also a bit open. No concrete in it though )

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Bart Thomas(deceased)

[I]OOOOOOOOOOOOOOps!!![/I]

My brain was fried after the event and the drive home.

(and perhaps ti many martoonis)

Sorry, Bill !

Jay

On the subject of 'holding the tree in the pot' I have been trying rafia instead of wire. I did two or three trees this past spring. Someone, who I should give credit to, but I can not remember who, suggested it.
The thought is that the rafia will hold the tree until the roots get 'a hold' on the pot. By the time the tree is established the rafia is starting to break down. Has anyone else tried this? It seems to be working on the two that I tried and I will be using it this coming spring at transplant time if all goes well.

Jay

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LivingArt

maybe it was me that told you about the raffia?
i use raffia to do that and also to pull my trees into positions. after they are in a position i think will be the permanent one i attach a wire cord to the tree to meet the tension of the raffia then cut the raffia.
the reason i do this is because it's easier to adjust raffia then a wire cord. sometimes i leave the raffia on for a week or so. i will change the raffia to alter the shape 2 or sometimes 5 times before i actually set it with the wire.
but this really has nothing to do with dirt.
basically my dirt has Akadama some kind of red clay bits and bark bits. the bark holds moisture i've been told but not enough for some of my plants like my bald cypress so i mix it with 100% organic soil mix.

Chadster

I notice that alot of people have been speaking of 100% inorganic for superior drainage and "airation" (or however you spell it) for root development. I hear alot of the Japanese masters and "masters" here in the U.S. recommend that as well. What do you all think of that?

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Psalms-91

dbz12fan

I don't know what brand of turface I use. I believe it to be a no name type. The particles are usually a bit larger.

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"Success demands understanding"-Andy Rutledge

Charles Bevan
Vero Beach, Fl

FredL

Ron, this is a very interesting subject and one that I'm happy to see has been resurrected.

I found myself pondering your initial comment about there being so many different opinions on this subject and opinions on it often being held quite passionately.

Certainly it is true that a great many different soil mixes are used successfully. Why is it that I am so attatched to mine?

At another site, I found my suggestions on soil mix attacked with great heat. Now, I never said that my mix is the only one that will work of even that it is best. I merely said that it worked very well for me and that I had learned recently that it was quite similar to the ones recommended by John Naka in "Bonsai Techniques I". With the result that J. Naka also came under the same heated attack!

So what was up?

I tend to think that soil has a sort of mystical link to some very deep parts of our psyches and the sort of substrate we want to nurture our trees with and on is somehow representative of something that goes beyond our rational reasons for the choices we make with it. I know that for me, I have an intense love of the natural world and view soil as a kind of benign living being made up of a fascinating multitude of tiny living beings, all contributing to a web of well being that supports my little trees. It is important to me that my soil mixes represent and extend this view into the small piece of natural wonder that bonsai represents to me. I, therefore, want to make my soil as close to what I view as "Natural Mother Earth" as I can. I do not sift or screen my mixtures; I merely make sure that I include sufficient gravel-like material to ensure fast drainage. The key idea is to make the mix more like dirty gravel than like dirt with gravel in it. My basic gravel component is generally small lava rock; either black or red. I like it because it is so rough. I will also include "pea gravel" because I think it makes the mix more interesting to look at close-up. I make up about 1/2 of my mixtures with this material.

For the organic comonent, I use almost anything that is of half-way reasonable size and doesn't look like it will break down into humus in a few months.

I also add a little (perhaps 1/6 to 1/10) garden loam, which I will vary depending on how the rest of the mix looks. Less if the gravel looks dusty or the mulch looks more likely to break down quickly, otherwise more. Personally, I think the issue of small particles is overblown. Humus and clay are colloids. I have not found that they accumulate at the bottom of a pot but stay pretty well disbused throughout my mixtures.

Now, when I got taken to task for misleading new commers with my idea of a proper soil mixture, it seemed to be around the issues that I had insufficient control of my soil components and that it is much wiser to use components that we have complete control over. Also, that the growth of potentially harmful organisms should be minimized.

Now, I don't mean to say that these ideas are wrong. I do mean to say they are not for me. I am first and foremost a Naturalist. I see myself trying to create a good soil ecology, not a sterile hydroponic environment. I want my trees to be little pieces of the natural world, not artificial constructs. When I see the term "living sculptures" used to describe bonsai, I see the emphasis as being on "living".

And, that goes for the soil as well.

Fred

RonMartin(deceased)

I think a lot depends on the climate you live in.
What will work in Japan might just not work in say Arizona or Nevada. Same analogy can be drawn for NY vs. Texas. Or Mane vs. Florida.
I have lived in England and still have many friends there. I am often asked by them for advise. I now live in South Carolina. Both places get the same average yearly rainfall. One would think it would be easy to answer a question on watering. BUT it is much hotter here in summer and much colder there in winter. Now evaporation rates come into place. That has to be taken into consideration in my answers. Not all that straight forward is it.
One of the reasons that I wrote my little article in such broad terms was just that concept.
Always convert the advise give to you by others to your local conditions.
As far as I can see the only constant thing in bonsai soil is particle size.

RonMartin(deceased)

Well if they work for you Fred then that is great. The only true test is, after all, how well your trees grow.
But I really need to throw something in here. Just for fun mind you.
But if your such a naturalist then what do you use for a bonsai pot. After all what most of us use isn't all that natural for the tree to grow in. )
The mind boggles at this picture I have floating in my silly little mind.
Hope you get the joke !!!