The secret to soil revealed!

Bonsainut

Hi Will,
Yes of course there is no doubt that there is frost heaving in low fired ware. That is not the point of debate. Your Toad house will undoubtedly show this breaking down. The point is that fired ware does not return to a mushy clay like state at any time.
Once fired it remains iin a state of ceramic hardness. The science is a 1000 years old on this point. There is no reason to discourage its use in a bonsai mix.

As to use of low fired ware as bonsai pot I would leave that up to each individuals growing enviroment. Some swear by them, including two past presidents of my local bonsai club. Local meaning not much frost or freezing around here.

Lots of research on this
http://www.digitalfire.ab.ca/cermat/education/200.html

__________________
Keep growing,---'Nut



Lethal Use of Farce

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Will_Heath

Bonsainut,

We were talking about Terra Cotta, no confusion. This subject was brought up in recent threads.

http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/showthr...ght=terra+cotta

Recommended reading on soil.

Although, you have the choice of using whatever you want and if that works for you, then it is the perfect mix.


Will

rockm

Nut,

I understand what you're saying about terra cotta shards surviving from long ago and that's true--up to a point. Those "survivors" are more likely in dry warmer climates and in protected conditions. Those shards can buried in many locations, sometimes well below the frost line in colder locations.

Here, where freezes are quite hard and common in the winter, terra cotta left exposed to the winter weather flakes and breaks down pretty quickly--especially the commercial terra cotta made in warm weather climates like Meixco and Italy. I've had terra cottaware collapse in one season left on my deck over the winter.

I noticed that in collapsing, terra cotta can crumbles into very small particles. They may be kiln-fired dust, but it's still dust. I wouldn't want such a fine ingredient in my bonsai soil, much less have the entire soil mass made of it. It's use as a bonsai soil ingredient in colder climates where pots will be frozen and refrozen repeatedly over the winter is questionable.

Besides "terra cotta" material that survives from long ago may not really be germane here. Such material isn't the typical commercially prepared pots commonly available at Home Depot. Old "terra cotta', may be clsoere to 'stoneware" or something in between. Kiln control and terms have shifted considerably in the last 1,000 years or so.

Bonsainut

Rockem,
I understand where you are coming from. But, We keep going back to the pot on the deck. I'm not saying use terra cotta (low fired ) pottery in cold climates for exposed plants.

The use of broken pieces in soil mix is the question, right? The idea that small particles of low fired earthenware in a soil mix would fare worse than (explode into fine dust) say unfired akadama, low fired akadama, turface, scoria, pumice, or fir bark for that matter has no science behind it. Only the pot on the deck evidence. Small particulates don't have the kind of stress that a pot full of soil and roots have.

Terra cotta (Low fired earthenware) has always been the same since time began, all ancient cultures had it -we have it now. It does not change over time or kiln conditions. Color varietions occur due to earth oxides present, that is the only difference.

__________________
Keep growing,---'Nut



Lethal Use of Farce

rockm

Nut, Just saying what I've observed. Frozen and re-frozen MODERN mass produced terra cotta results in tiny particles that would be a problem in a bonsai soil. Seen it first hand and no, not just with the pot on my deck. I wouldn't use it in this area as a soil ingredient.

There is no issue with pumice, high-fired brick mulch (which is a better alternative to terra cotta as a soil amendment and alot cheaper), or fired akadama. I've used all of these with no problems in bonsai soil.

For what it's worth, Turface can decompose rapidly, especially some of the newer stuff, depending on the batch. Some folks I know have stopped using it because they've had some bad experiences with it. I haven't had that experience, though.

I would not use low-fired or unfired Aka., here. They were developed for use in a completely different climate. The winters here with their constant freeze thaw cycle, combined with alot of rain and snow breaks down less hardened ingredients like that pretty quickly. Alot of these things can be used in warmer climates and I don't doubt that they're great in those conditions.

"Terra cotta (Low fired earthenware) has always been the same since time began, all ancient cultures had it -we have it now." Yeah, but it's the definition that's a little elusive. I'm not potter and have no real idea of what I'm talking about here, but I've heard that terra cotta can be fired at a variety of temperatures, some approaching more hardened ceramics. Don't other variables also contribute to its durability, like the clay being used, etc.? http://ceramic-materials.com/cermat/glossary/t.html

Bonsainut

Rockem,
Understood and Nuff said, eh? I think we understand this ingredient has limited use in that it is not easily available off the shelf anyway, right?. So why use all those brain dead cells we could be using on pulling weeds in bonsai pots. I'm outside...

__________________
Keep growing,---'Nut



Lethal Use of Farce

rockm

Nut,

Yes on both counts...;-) That's the subject and the brain cells...

Will_Heath

Brain cells as a soil amendment?

seeker08

Jay,
I found myself in total agreement with your reply.Bonsai may well grow in some of the medium Will listed, but I feel not all.
I wonder what the views would be from some of todays bonsai masters would be to some of Will`s list of possible growth medium??
I have found a soil (and feeding regime)that suits my bonsai,watering and weather conditions, I adjust the basic mix with grit/peat depending on variety.It seems to work well I am satisfied with the results. Incidentally ,my basic bonsai soil mix with minor adjustment suits my Cacti very well. Both in flower and growth .

__________________
Remember if you cut off in haste- You NO put back.
Bonsai is about patience,care and understanding.