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The secret to soil revealed!

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Old 11-May-2005   #11
Carcey
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Go to your local dentist and take home all the discarded teeth, add some water retentive material like bits of cut up sponge to the mix and you could grow a bonsai in it.


Hmmm.....now I know why the tooth fairy kept all those teeth!
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Old 12-May-2005   #12
malhomme
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Will,

I think you are, despite the hyperbole, on to something. I've see magnificent kyohime maples grown in pure mud. Yes, I said "mud". They were purchased from some second generation Japanese in California. That was the way they grew their trees, matching with the care that they were able to provide them. I was dumbstruck when I saw this.

However, regarding particle sharpness and it's role in forcing roots to branch, you may be perpetuating a myth. According to Nina Shishkoff (aka The Bonsai Doctor), the abrasive properties of soil particles has nothing to do with it.


Nina, in a recent post to another board:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nina
However, the sharp edges do NOT -- repeat, do NOT -- cause roots to divide.

True. If you look at roots, they do not have a dichotomous branching pattern- that is, they don't split in half, and in fourths, and in eighths, etc., the way they would if the tip were constantly splitting.

The tip elongates, and the way it manages to push its way through soil or sand or clay no matter how hard is by forming a slimy root cap that lubricates its way through cracks and crevices. Farther up along the older root, lateral roots form from a layer deep in the root. These are the roots that make a root system bushy. Partly the trait of bushiness is under genetic control, and partly it depends on the soil type- compact or loose, waterlogged or dry. But "sharpness" has nothing to do with it.

Nina, whose Ph.D. was on root anatomy.
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Old 16-May-2005   #13
ChosenOfRa
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lately ive been thinking of crushing old terra cotta pots. like a homemade turface. wont break down too quick. a good sift and i got some fired "mexi-dama" this post might have talked me into it.
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Old 16-May-2005   #14
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We discussed why Terra cotta WOULD NOT make a good soil ingredient--depending on where you live--a while back. Frost and freezes will turn it into mush pretty quickly. Small grade crushed brick mulch sold at Home Depot or the like might be a better alternative...
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Old 16-May-2005   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malhomme
However, regarding particle sharpness and it's role in forcing roots to branch, you may be perpetuating a myth.


I don't remember saying anything about what you have mentioned above. I did say "...bonsai can be grown in any thing that is properly sized, not too smooth and not poisonous." The roll of jagged sharp particles is to allow spaces between the particles for drainage, the jagged edges preform this function better than smooth ones.


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Old 16-May-2005   #16
malhomme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will
Bonsai also require the formation of fine feeder roots to assure optimal conditions in the confines of a pot and to create good nebari. If the saying that the top mirrors the bottom is true in bonsai, the fine roots are indispensable for aesthetic reasons as well. For this reason one may choose the glass shards over the round smooth marbles or the teeth over the rounded gravel

Will, you're right. You did not explicitly say anything about the abrasive properties of sharp particles. It did, to me at least, seem implied since this is a very common misconception and role of the "glass shards" was omitted.

--Jim
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Old 16-May-2005   #17
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Fyi

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockm
We discussed why Terra cotta WOULD NOT make a good soil ingredient--depending on where you live--a while back. Frost and freezes will turn it into mush pretty quickly. Small grade crushed brick mulch sold at Home Depot or the like might be a better alternative...


Rockem,
I missed that discussion. Fired terra cotta will not re break down for several decades at least. There is a crystal inversion property that occurs in clay at 600c or so that turns clay to ceramic. Even low fired clay is then not easily broken down by erosion, frost, or bacterial action.
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Old 16-May-2005   #18
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"Fired terra cotta will not re break down for several decades at least. There is a crystal inversion property that occurs in clay at 600c or so that turns clay to ceramic"

Not sure if this is the terra cotta they make flower pots from, but, in my experience repeated frosts and freezing turns those to flaked mush in a couple of seasons--especially if they're kept wet. Nursery owners recommend those pots not be exposed to freezing for longest life. The reason not to use terra cotta for bonsai pots would seem to hold true for not using it as a bonsai soil ingredient. Terra cotta bonsai pots are notorious for cracking and rupturing in cold weather...
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Old 17-May-2005   #19
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Rockem,
I understand what you are saying. The terms are getting in our way. Fired terra cotta (earthenware) never returns to mush. Century old shards are founds from old cultures all over the planet.

What ever substance you are using that is turning to mush is obviously an unfired clay product. That is the difference. You are right about that.

So in Summary broken fired clay shards that are sifted will not break down in a bonsai soil mixture, for at least a few dozen years. Even I repot sooner than that.
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Old 17-May-2005   #20
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Tonight I will take some pictures that will put this to rest. I have a shard of Terra cotta that we placed in the garden for a toad house and a piece of a fire pot made with Terra cotta, both are flaking and deteriorating after one single winter. Every nursery here recommends placing Terra cotta inside for the winter to prevent this very thing from happening.


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