Open Ground & Bed Growing Advice - Placement, Soil, Dimensions, Timing, Maintance

ekillians

Well, I want to thicken up my trunks and purchase considerable more nursery stock to add to the open ground bed.

I have a few questions but I have read through all the forums containing the words "open ground" and "bed" as well as...

www.evergreengardenworks.com/trunk.htm "Developing Large Trunks for Bonsai"
www.evergreengardenworks.com/growfast.htm "Obtaining Maximum Growth in Pre-Bonsai"

I also recommend this thread for some 'light' reading if you are unfamiliar with the topic http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/f14/jus...tock-15185.html

***Please, if you could, limit discussion to open ground or bed growing as I have already decided this is the best for the age and type of trees I will be growing. Please post pond container and grow box information in another thread.***

I have considerable land in Lancaster PA, USA (zone 6a/6b) - the ground is very fertile (perhaps some of the best on the East coast) but per the forums I believe adding some perlite and compost would be beneficial for air and nutrients respectively, though I'm sure they would grow just fine without.

1. Placement: What kind of protection does this bed need (from wind and sun)? Would you place it in partial sun/shade for protection during very hot days? A shade cloth over the top is even a possibility I would imagine.

2. Dimensions: Again, from the forums the general consensus seems to be 18 inches to 3 feet between trees. Does anyone have any opinions on spacing? I have a good bit of land but didn't want to plant-up the entire yard.

I was thinking one 6 x 20 foot bed this year. That would be two rows of approximately 10-12 plants (at 18 inches to two feet spacing). Then another 6 x 20 foot bed next year after the trial bed goes well.

3. Tilling: I believe tilling the 6x20 area is recommended, but how deep should I till? Also, will grass growing around the trees hinder development? How do I turn an area that has grass on it now, into just a garden with soil without grass growing in it? I feel like tilling ground with grass on it would just bury the grass to grow another day. Should I tear up the top 'sod-like' layer of grass? Also, would framing out the growing bed be beneficial at all? What kind of wood is recommended?

4. Spading: Again, from the forums I've seen arguments for and against spading. I think spading would be beneficial especially if I decided not to provide a full three feet between trees. Essentially, spade opposite sides in year 2, then the other two sides in year 3. Any opinions on this matter?

5. Timing: What is the best time of year to place my already potted plants in the growing bed? Instinctively, I would say when the last frost has gone - but you guys seem to know best. Enlighten me. Also, while down the road - people have mentioned to plan in the ground for 3 years then potted for one year, then back in the ground for 2-3 more years. By this, I gather, the roots don't get too tangled-up by being potted for a year as opposed to being in the ground for 6 straight years.

Well that’s a lot of questions, and I know you guys (and girls) are the ones that have the answers. Being newer to the forum, I just wanted to say every one seems so friendly and helpful so I'm anxious to hear ideas from everyone.

Pictures/diagrams are a plus!!!

P.S. Anyone in the Lancaster or PA area with experience in field and bed growing please note that in your post of PM me. Thanks!

Advertisement

OKbonsai

[QUOTE=ekillians]Well, I want to thicken up my trunks and purchase considerable more nursery stock to add to the open ground bed.

I have a few questions but I have read through all the forums containing the words "open ground" and "bed" as well as...

www.evergreengardenworks.com/trunk.htm "Developing Large Trunks for Bonsai"
www.evergreengardenworks.com/growfast.htm "Obtaining Maximum Growth in Pre-Bonsai"

I also recommend this thread for some 'light' reading if you are unfamiliar with the topic http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/f14/jus...tock-15185.html

***Please, if you could, limit discussion to open ground or bed growing as I have already decided this is the best for the age and type of trees I will be growing. Please post pond container and grow box information in another thread.***

I have considerable land in Lancaster PA, USA (zone 6a/6b) - the ground is very fertile (perhaps some of the best on the East coast) but per the forums I believe adding some perlite and compost would be beneficial for air and nutrients respectively, though I'm sure they would grow just fine without.

Well adding compost never hurts but I wouldn't waste my money or time adding perlite. Not at all needed especially it the ground is fertile like you said.

1. Placement: What kind of protection does this bed need (from wind and sun)? Would you place it in partial sun/shade for protection during very hot days? A shade cloth over the top is even a possibility I would imagine.

Hey I am in Oklahoma and I am sure that weather conditions are much more severe here than where you are. That being said my beds are in full sun with no wind potection. I have no problems with this arrangement.

2. Dimensions: Again, from the forums the general consensus seems to be 18 inches to 3 feet between trees. Does anyone have any opinions on spacing? I have a good bit of land but didn't want to plant-up the entire yard.

Well I plant at 18" and when you put out those little seedlings that looks like enough. But with time it's not. So give them a little more room than the 18"

I was thinking one 6 x 20 foot bed this year. That would be two rows of approximately 10-12 plants (at 18 inches to two feet spacing). Then another 6 x 20 foot bed next year after the trial bed goes well.

You are on the right tract, one bed. No sense putting in thousands of seedlings to find you can't handle it. Start small and get a feel for it. No matter what some say it is a lot of work. Unless you have very deep pockets and have tons of help.

3. Tilling: I believe tilling the 6x20 area is recommended, but how deep should I till? As deep as your tiller goes.Also, will grass growing around the trees hinder development? Yes How do I turn an area that has grass on it now, into just a garden with soil without grass growing in it?

You can kill off the grass with roundup but you will have to pull weeds all season long. Once my seedlings are in the ground and the irrigation lines are in I use mulch to keep the weeds down. Remember I said it was a lot of work this is where the a lot of work really starts.

I feel like tilling ground with grass on it would just bury the grass to grow another day. Should I tear up the top 'sod-like' layer of grass?

Depends on what kind of grass it is. I am not familiar with you grass types but I would guess that you aren't talking about bermuda. So if you till it up most of the grass should break down and feed the soil. But I would till and wait a year and keep tilling it when it starts growing and then the next spring till it once more and then plant.

Also, would framing out the growing bed be beneficial at all?

I find that making framed beds helps. It just seems like less weeds to pull when they are framed in. But it adds to the cost. What kind of wood is recommended?
I have used rail road ties but prefer treated lumber.

4. Spading: Again, from the forums I've seen arguments for and against spading. I think spading would be beneficial especially if I decided not to provide a full three feet between trees. Essentially, spade opposite sides in year 2, then the other two sides in year 3. Any opinions on this matter?

It helps. I use a mat on the bottom of my beds that has copper in it. I think it helps, but it is a lot of work and adds to the cost.

5. Timing: What is the best time of year to place my already potted plants in the growing bed? Instinctively, I would say when the last frost has gone - but you guys seem to know best. Enlighten me.

This could be answered better by someone in your area. Check with county extension agents, if you have them. For me it is when I have the time. If the seedlings are bare root, before they break dormancy, it they are in pots anytime in the spring is best.

Also, while down the road - people have mentioned to plan in the ground for 3 years then potted for one year, then back in the ground for 2-3 more years. By this, I gather, the roots don't get too tangled-up by being potted for a year as opposed to being in the ground for 6 straight years.

Never heard this, too much trouble. Plus it depends what you are growing and big you want them to get. For me I let my pines grow for 5 to 6 years minimum. But I don't just plant them and wait 5 to 6 years. There is work to be done along the way (remember I said there was a lot of work to do). By digging and potting and then putting them back in the ground you are wasting time. You dig the tree put it in a pot and now the first year the tree has to get use to being in a pot and grows very little. Then you put it back in the ground and now it spends the next year getting use to to being in the ground. Now you have wasted 2 years where the tree did little growing. Put it in the ground and leave it until it is ready.


Well that’s a lot of questions, and I know you guys (and girls) are the ones that have the answers. Being newer to the forum, I just wanted to say every one seems so friendly and helpful so I'm anxious to hear ideas from everyone.

Pictures/diagrams are a plus!!!

P.S. Anyone in the Lancaster or PA area with experience in field and bed growing please note that in your post of PM me. Thanks![/QUOTE


Well I always say it is important to ask questions but after reading your post I have to wonder if you are ready for such a big project. That is why I say start off small and work up as you gain experience. Because to do it right it will take a lot of hard work and time. I have seen many think they can just plant the trees and wait. And I have also seen the results of this kind of thinking, trees that aren't good for anything.
I hope this helps, I am not the best at explaining things.
Frank

__________________
The difference between Genius and Stupidity is, Genius has it's limits.