Massive soil questions

KZitzewitz

So what are some good components to use to make soil? I was reading what everyones mixtures are and what to know what else may be used. As I mentioned in my posting about the soil recipes, I noticed some poeple have the sand, silt and peat thing going, so what makes the differents between the three with components, would this make a good average soil
pumice, orchid bark, horticultural charcoal
I am seeing lava rock, cinder, pumice, pretty much the same, now the turface (aren't they just clay granules), is that the same as the charcoal, is the charcoal even a component I should use. Is perlite and vermiculite differ, can we get some of the properties and some common mixes that might work.
would pumice, orchid bark and perlite/vermiculite work? what is the point using pumice and pea gravel, are't they both the same, and would turface as charcoal work the same? or is there a difference between them?
and what are some more of the components (the reason for posting this)
we have
cinder/lava rock/pumice
pea gravel
orchid bark
turface
vermiculite/perlite
fir bark
charcoal

thanks for the info

__________________
--Kristopher

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TreeBay

Hi there Mr K.

Soildoc started a post a month or two ago asking folks their favorite recipes. I think it comes down to the following questions:

1) What kind of plants are you growing?
2) How large are the trees?
3) What soil ingredients are available in your area?
4) How frequently can and will you be able to water?

With those as guidelines, you can usually come up with a workable mixture. Please check out the *LINKS* site and look under techniques->repotting. There is some interesting references there on soil construction.

I haven't seen a lot of horticultural charcoal used in bonsai. Perlite is a little too light and tends to float its way to the top of the mix in repeated watering, and sand, if it is too fine in size, will work its way to the bottom. Vermiculite I just stay away from entirely for anything but cuttings or seeds. It's much too light. Pea gravel would just build bulk in the soil at the expense of a lot of weight. IMHO pumice would be a better choice if it's available. It is lighter and more porous, but the light color can be detracting.

Orchid bark, as sold in the SF Bay area, is fir bark. There is some nice extra fine bark available.

I am still partial to a mixture of river sand, fir bark and fine lava, but I have been adding some Japanese akadama to that to improve its ability to hold moisture in the summer, and deciduous and especially flowering trees in particular seem to like it.

I would suggest you begin with the the orchid or fir bark, if it is finely graded, turface and sand, (a large, well washed non-ocean sand) and experiment by working in some of the other ingredients. Sift everything and discard what falls through a window screen (that's about 1/16). Sometimes power washing with a hose on a large section of screen is faster, but the soil should be somewhat dry at repotting time to enable it to settle more evenly around the roots.

Regards,

Matt

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Bonsainut

Mr k,

You still stuck on this ole thang. Like I been sayin' you got to find what tis best for you my friend. Pick two aggregates and one humus and sort, sift and blend and try it this year. Then tweek it next year and fine tune it the next. It is not that hard...

Or maybe you knew all that and was just "chatting".

__________________
Keep growing,---'Nut



Lethal Use of Farce

KZitzewitz

I know alot about soil, but then I see some more stuff and have questions, I was reading bonsai today and saw the transplanting of a big black pine. the gentleman transplanting it used charcoal and some other items that I had questsions about, I am thinking of trying this, turface, pumice and orchid bark to start and seeing how that works, I just do not want the trees I have to die, nor do I want to have them strugle, as this year I will be doing most of my transplanting for ths first time ( most of the trees I had before were never much of well, anything worth transplanting, but now I am getting serious, and so I want to know, thanks for the info so far.

__________________
--Kristopher

Soildoc

Hey Mr. K

Let me see if I can help on some of your problems. First let's deal with the charcoal thing. Charcoal is a great thing for getting rid of contaminants. If you go to an aquarium store, a lot of the filters you see for sale have some sort of charcoal. In bonsai soil, I don't see a real need for it since the water percolation rate is so high. The water moving through the soil will flush the pore space every time you water to the point the pot drains out the bottom. As for the other stuff, it may be easier to explain soil basics and then allow you to adapt to meet the needs of your individual trees. Soil (ie. the garden variety stuff) is made up of organic matter, sand, silt, and clay. Sand is the largest of the four things and sandy soils will drain very quickly. Clay is the smallest of the three and adsorbs water and nutrients along with organic matter. Getting the right mix may not be real easy. You want enough sand (or in alot of the commercial bonsai mixes very small gravel) while keeping enough clay and organic matter to retain plant available nutrients and water. The recipes that every one comes up with are designed to meet these two needs. Here in central MS, I need something that gives me a longer water retention time since it gets so hot in the summer so I use a mix with more clay and organic matter and a little less sand (although this is still sandier than garden soil). Of the things that you list pumice will be a good alternative to the clays. The individual particles should be highly porous and will retain plant available water. I am guessing that it is large enough that the space between particles will allow a lot of water drainage as well so you'll get the best of both worlds. The only problem is that pumice contains a lot of iron compounds so you'll need to watch the pH and add quite a bit of phosphorus. Adding organic matter either as fir bark or orchard bark will help with the water retention and bind with plant available nutrients. I don't know what turface is but if it has properties like these things, you should be Ok.

If you're interested, my recipe is to mix playground sand with commercial topsoil in a 50/50 ratio. It should too simple but that's what I've found that works

Bonsainut

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about! Good choices, you have learned your lessons well, young jedi !

__________________
Keep growing,---'Nut



Lethal Use of Farce