The great soil conspiracy.

Will_Heath

Color me stupid, color me paranoid, color me inexperienced.

As I have stated in the other dirt thread, I find it hard to believe that here in the 21st century, with all the technologic advances, science, aquiculture and horticulture achievements, that there is not yet a basic bonsai soil mix that uses readily available ingredients. This mix once stated could be amended with more or less of the ingredients to account for climates and species needs.

Is this because of some well kept secrets? Because of masters not wanting to share the basest knowledge? Jealousy? Greed? Gluttony? Pride? Vanity? Or is this just a right of initiation that all are forced to go though?

Honestly, could not lava rock, fir bark, and turface be mixed in differing amounts serve 90% of all bonsai soil needs? The other 10% being acid loving plants which would need a addition of one other ingredient.

Think to yourselves, is there not a few simple ingredients that are readily available that could be combined in various combinations that would serve 90% of all growers? This problem is not difficult, in fact I am surprised that not one experienced bonsaist has put it forth. The lack of such a basic soil chart/system leads me to the conspiracy theory.

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me.


Will Heath

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RonMartin(deceased)

Hate to sound like a broken record but please read this
http://www.memobug.com/csn/csn.cgi?...0.5995123805917

All soils are a combination of organic and inorganic materials. How much of each are in the particular mix determines the function it will fill for the tree.
Think of the properties of each ingredient not the ingredient itself. For example crushed lava , Terragreen, Turface and even that Japanese stuff all fulfill the same basic function. Aeration and drainage. Some better than the others but basically the same.
The organic material helps with water retention and does provide some nutrients.
Now seeing as there are many different climates and even more types of trees the only way that one can answer your question is that a good basic soil would have the proper amounts of organic and inorganic materials to fit the trees needs in the climate it is in. This will vary.
But as a guess I would say to start off with a 50-50 mix and then adjust it as needed.
What ingredients that go into a bonsai soil is not nearly as important as the properties of those ingredients. What ever is available locally that fulfils those properties will work.
There is no conspiracy just no pat answer to your question.

Walter_Pall

Will,

I use just about the same soil mix for almost all trees. Hundreds of trees, mind you, some extremely valuable. I do not think that it is worth to bother about individual mixes for every species.
I take whatever the garden has available:

for most conifers and rather dry loving trees:

80 % pumice or 'turface' or lava split, or akadama or similar of a mixture of all these
20 % peat


for non-conifers (broadleaved trees) and some conifers like spruce:

60 % see above
40 % peat

no compost, no other organic ingredients.


For azaleas and other ericaceous plants:

100 % kanuma or 50 % peat and 50 % pumice


There are no nutrients in my soil. I have to feed on a regular basis, mainly organic.
The soil is very well draining but dries out quickly. I have to water EVERY day, in summer twice.

best regards
Walter Pall
http://walter-pall.de look how healthy my trees look with this simple soil regime.

Will_Heath

Ron,

"There is no one soil mix that will work on all bonsai, in all climates, nor in all sizes of bonsai pots. I am not going to come up with the magic formula. I doubt if anyone could."


Ron that is an excellant artical, thank you.

However it leads me back to my original question. In the Artical you mention that a mix of inorganic and organic is the best way to go and even give a few examples of ingrediants to use.

Lets take your suggestion and say we started with a magic formula of 50% fir bark and 50% lava rock and call this our base mix. This is the magic mix that all future mixes will be born from. (For example purposes only)

Now, if you live in a wetter climate than control zero (the 50/50 mix) you would add 1 extra part of lava rock. If in a drier climate than add 1 extra part of fir bark. For acid loving plants add 1 part peat. etc etc etc Or based on your watering habits, the same would apply.

I feel as though my point isn't quite making it, maybe it is my lack of explaination or communication skills.

Will

Will_Heath

Walter,

Thank you,

Now there's what I call a good base mix that can be easily altered to match mine or anyone's climates and personal habits. And it comes from a person with more experiance than most and provable results.

Two questions, what kind of peat do you use, peat moss, peat humus or some other form? And do you shift all you ingrediants or use as purchased?

Thanks again Walter!

Will Heathj

RonMartin(deceased)

Very basic talk now. Not directed at you but the situation requites it.
More organic material means more water retention.
More inorganic materials means more drainage.
If your soil stays too wet cut back on the organic and increase the inorganic.The reverse if it wont retain enough water.
Also consider this. Decaying organic material is out of necessity acidic. Decomposing ( and yes it will eventually decompose) is usually alkaline.
Starting with a 50-50 mix will give you a start.Then you will have to fiddle with that mix to suit your particular needs.
Does that help

Will_Heath

Ron,

ACK!

I am happy with my current mix that I am using, my trees thrive in it. I am however always looking, trying, and learning. This post was not about finding a suitable mix for myself, but in fact, finding a basic starting point for all newcomers and experianced bonsaist alike. (please see above)

"Starting with a 50-50 mix will give you a start.Then you will have to fiddle with that mix to suit your particular needs" is exactly what I just said in my previous posts.

Again, I must think, that due to the roundabout way these soil discussions take, I must believe that...

a) no one reads posts before answering
b) no one really has a clue
c) there is in fact a great soil conspiracy.
d) I am so stupid that I can not communicate this thought.
e) I will most likely be double talked to death.

with respect,

Will

grampz

After many years of trying and using different formulas for potting trees and other plants, I have come to the conclusion that plants will grow in just about anything that will support root growth, and not poision the plant...

Having said that, I think it is a matter of finding what is available in your area, and creating a mix to suit your watering and feeding habits...

Will, I am just curious how many threads you are planning to start concerning this subject...

Regards
Behr

Will_Heath

This will be the last one, I promise.

Will