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22-Sep-2004
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#1 |
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Dirt Myths and a New Friend
This last weekend I was invited over to a fellow club members home, who also happens to be a new member here to this forum.
He gave me the grand tour of his beautiful gardens and his many, many bonsai trees. And since I had debated against his claims that good old well tilled dirt was the best thing to grow bonsai in on another forum, I carefully checked the soil and the health of each bonsai. To my great surprise, his bonsai were indeed thriving in just good old dirt. In growing pots, in bonsai pots, in nursery pots, established for months and for years, his trees looked healthy and showed signs of good growth. Pines, olives, maples, etc etc etc all were fine. The soil looked too damp and not right to me, but the trees told the tale. We later sat down and did some rough styling on a couple raw pines. I thoughly enjoyed myself and his hospitally left nothing to be desired. Thank you Bill and I take back everything I said about your methods, except the part about you being a dirt farmer, you are, and a darn good one to boot. |
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23-Sep-2004
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#2 |
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bonsaiTALK Master Chief
 
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Will,
This is certainly interesting and I must admit rather hard to swallow because it goes against EVERYTHING that I have ever read! I guess seeing is believing. I would sure love to see some of these trees, maybe Bill could share some of his methods and watering techniques. I would sure like to see how he does it. Sounds like you had a great informative and fun time with your club member! Aren't bonsai people the best?!?!? Thanks Adam |
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23-Sep-2004
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#4 |
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Old Mister Crow
 
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Hi Will,
I think that what you are seeing here is the difference between sufficient and optimal. Plain old dirt is certainly sufficient for growing healthy, happy trees (if you do everything right; admittedly it provides a smaller margin of error than does a good bonsai soil). I know a number of maple enthusiasts who grow maple cultivars in containers using potting soil. I've got one myself, a big full moon maple that has been in potting soil for three years and is very happy. (As an aside, those growing maples as container plants would probably do even better with a bark mulch + lava mix). But healthy foliage is only a small part of the story when it comes to bonsai. Obviously, we're aiming for a certain pattern of growth, a particular sort of development of the root pad, rapid progression to create the illusion of great age within our own limited lifetimes. Here I venture that plain old dirt falls far short of a good coarse bonsai mix. The proof is in the pudding, indeed - but for bonsai artists the part that you see above ground is only a small part of the pudding. Visit your friend at repotting time. Does he get the sort of spectacular root growth that is possible with a good bonsai mix, the tight, shallow root pad with vigorously growing masses of small feeder roots and few if any large roots? The rapid development of a symmetric nebari? This is crucial, and not just where the roots and nebari are concerned, but also in the growth habit of the foliage above. While really hard evidence is difficult to come by, I have a strong sense from my own experience that the commonly asserted parallel between root development and canopy development is indeed real. All of these factors matter as much as the health of the foliage. My money is certainly on a soil-free bonsai mix when it comes to the whole package. Best regards, Carl
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In love with trees |
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23-Sep-2004
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#5 |
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Hi Carl,
Well said. I wholeheartenly agree with your statement. I am amazed at the results Bill gets with his soil, I myself will stick to my mix. Although let it be said that he does it quite well. As I have stated elsewhere, with the proper care a bonsai can be grown in almost anything. If I seen a bonsai growing in shards of glass, I would shake my head in wonder but I wouldn't run home and start busting up my soda bottles. The commonly accepted mixes work extremely well with the minumum amount of care and worry. My personal mix works well for my personal habits and for my choice of stock, however it could very well lead to the death of your trees and visa versa, I'm sure. The best mix? (are you ready for this?) The best mix is simply what works for you. Period. If your bonsai are thriving with proper foliage, ramification, and root development then you, my friend, are using the perfect mix. |
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23-Sep-2004
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#6 | |
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Old Mister Crow
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Quote:
Exactly. That says it all. Best regards, Carl
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In love with trees |
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23-Sep-2004
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#7 |
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Bonsai nare-do-well
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There is a big difference between a long term and a short term effect. I am not too sure if I believe that he has grown bonsai in this mix for years.
I do hear this a lot but see little proof |
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23-Sep-2004
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#8 |
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"I am not too sure if I believe that he has grown bonsai in this mix for years."
Ron, I debated this with him on another forum and I felt the same way. Of course I wouldn't ask you to take my word for it, but it is what it is. Amazing and I'm sure that I couldn't pull it off, but he does a good job at it. Just wanted to bring it up as I did actually witness this, although I have not seen root development. |
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26-Sep-2004
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#10 |
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Bonsai Doer
 
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Wait a minute guys, don't make this harder than it is. Dirt is dirt, and soil is soil. The only difference between Will's friend and say,..Carl and Ron is the size of the dirt.
The benifits of coarser soil are: *More airspaces for better roots *Fertilizers work well *Watering can be done on a more regular basis which coincides with work schedules *Roots will not rot as easily. etc. etc. The benifits of dirt: *cheap Now, will they both work? Of course they will. Plants have been growing in dirt for +-3 billion years. Growing in garden loam just takes more diligent work from the grower to make sure nothing goes wrong. I have been making bonsai soil for three years and selling it at the local nursery. I have been making bonsai soil for my trees since I started 21 years ago. They have always been lava based or baked clay based. This year I broke down and bought akadama for about 10 plants, and used that at repotting. I can tell you this, there is something magical in that red dirt from Japan. If you try it you will not grow in anything else. I will repot in pure akadama this year and hope to see the same improvement in all my trees that I saw in the 10. I consider using akadama as close to garden loam as one could get. Its not the soils fault if you misread what the plant needs as far as watering. Gerald Stowell wrote many bonsai books in the sixties and seventies. I have a few of his old books. He wrote alot on soil. He grew in modified garden loam. The key, (according to Stowell) was having a friable mix. The ability to not compact in the pot. Everyone knows that to have a wonderful vegetable garden, one has to work over the bed till it is right for "growing". This may be the inclusion of lime, sand, humus, dolimite, gypsum, sulphur, fertilizers, and a whole myriad of soil componets to make the soil richer and more friable. No one wants to try to pull a carrot from good old hardpan. For Gerald it was the friabilty and not the size that made the difference. The great U.S. farmers in the midwest grow till crops in the off season just to plow them under before planting in an attempt to keep the ground loose and friable. Compaction is a bonsai's worst enemy. Enough sand will make any garden soil suitable for bonsai. Coarser soil just makes it easy for us to be lazy and lead a normal lifestyle. Nothing more! /|\ III Bonsai-al
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A tree a day...thats all we ask. Last edited by bonsaial1 : 26-Sep-2004 at 04:03 AM. |
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