[IBC] Nursery stock and circling/intertwined roots

Isom, Jeff , EM, PTL

I'm looking for some suggestions/hints/tricks/lessons learned....
I have purchased a number of nursery plants this year and have found that as
I get into the process of combing out the roots - they are an absolute mess.
Unfortunately, I don't have ready access to wild trees (alps, rockies, or
even smokies) or even field grown; so am stuck with nursery stock. Saturday
I spent over 2 hours trying to comb the roots out on a Mugho pine. This was
a 3 gallon tree with a really nice trunk AND what appeared to be a fairly
good nebari. However, when I got it home and actually got working on it I
discovered that the roots circled and intertined so bad there was no way to
completely get them straightend. I did the best that I could, but I know it
will probably take some more serious work again (maybe twice more) in the
future just to get the roots into decent shape. Is there some trick to this
that I'm simply not aware of? Is there some way to tell in advance - I mean
I dig down with my fingers as far as I can while at the nursery, but it
isn't always that obvious. This is not a one-time thing either. Every tree
I've purchased this year with any trunk size at all seems to have this
problem. I believe someone else mentioned a similar problem with a Hillier
Elm not too long ago. I need some HELP!

Jeff Isom
Cleveland, OH / Sunset Zone 39

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kevin bailey

I grow many plants myself and, when I'm not careful, end up with the
problems you describe. You can spend a few years sorting the nursery
plants roots but D.I.Y. is probably the best way. Work from cuttings or
seedlings and vigilantly arrange the roots, before planting out to grow
on and you can be sure of good root spread. Over many years I've learned
to pot up my cuttings and seedlings into flats rather than larger pots
that encourage coiling roots.

Alternatively, if you can't wait, source your plants from one of the
very best bonsai nurseries, where they do this work for you. Evergreen
Garden Works has a very good reputation in this regard.

Cheers

Kev Bailey
Vale Of Clwyd, North Wales


-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club [mailto:BONSAI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM] On Behalf
Of Isom, Jeff (EM, PTL)
Sent: 03 May 2004 22:44
To: BONSAI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Subject: [IBC] Nursery stock and circling/intertwined roots

I'm looking for some suggestions/hints/tricks/lessons learned....
I have purchased a number of nursery plants this year and have found
that as
I get into the process of combing out the roots - they are an absolute
mess.
Unfortunately, I don't have ready access to wild trees (alps, rockies,
or
even smokies) or even field grown; so am stuck with nursery stock.
Saturday
I spent over 2 hours trying to comb the roots out on a Mugho pine. This
was
a 3 gallon tree with a really nice trunk AND what appeared to be a
fairly
good nebari. However, when I got it home and actually got working on it
I
discovered that the roots circled and intertined so bad there was no way
to
completely get them straightend. I did the best that I could, but I
know it
will probably take some more serious work again (maybe twice more) in
the
future just to get the roots into decent shape. Is there some trick to
this
that I'm simply not aware of? Is there some way to tell in advance - I
mean
I dig down with my fingers as far as I can while at the nursery, but it
isn't always that obvious. This is not a one-time thing either. Every
tree
I've purchased this year with any trunk size at all seems to have this
problem. I believe someone else mentioned a similar problem with a
Hillier
Elm not too long ago. I need some HELP!

Jeff Isom
Cleveland, OH / Sunset Zone 39

************************************************** **********************
********
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** **********************
********
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<<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
+++++

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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

marty haber

The reason nursery stock is often root-bound is because commercial growers
up-pot young trees without ever bothering with the roots. Many times I
have found elements of the original 2" paper pots in the soil of plants sold
in 10" or 12" pots.
The best (and dirtiest) way of dealing with root-bound material is to wash
out all the soil with a high pressure hose before combing out the roots.
That way it's easier to see what you're doing. It is also less traumatic
for the roots as opposed to raking them out with a root hook.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Isom, Jeff (EM, PTL)" <Jeff.Isom@PENSKE.COM>
To: <BONSAI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 5:44 PM
Subject: [IBC] Nursery stock and circling/intertwined roots


> I'm looking for some suggestions/hints/tricks/lessons learned....
> I have purchased a number of nursery plants this year and have found that
as
> I get into the process of combing out the roots - they are an absolute
mess.
> Unfortunately, I don't have ready access to wild trees (alps, rockies, or
> even smokies) or even field grown; so am stuck with nursery stock.
Saturday
> I spent over 2 hours trying to comb the roots out on a Mugho pine. This
was
> a 3 gallon tree with a really nice trunk AND what appeared to be a fairly
> good nebari. However, when I got it home and actually got working on it I
> discovered that the roots circled and intertined so bad there was no way
to
> completely get them straightend. I did the best that I could, but I know
it
> will probably take some more serious work again (maybe twice more) in the
> future just to get the roots into decent shape. Is there some trick to
this
> that I'm simply not aware of? Is there some way to tell in advance - I
mean
> I dig down with my fingers as far as I can while at the nursery, but it
> isn't always that obvious. This is not a one-time thing either. Every
tree
> I've purchased this year with any trunk size at all seems to have this
> problem. I believe someone else mentioned a similar problem with a
Hillier
> Elm not too long ago. I need some HELP!
>
> Jeff Isom
> Cleveland, OH / Sunset Zone 39
>
>
************************************************** **************************
****
> ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
>
************************************************** **************************
****
> >>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
> +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

Isom, Jeff , EM, PTL

Thanks for the responses everyone. Mostly I was just venting -
My current process is: 1) Remove plant from nursery container and soak in
a solution of Miracle Grow & Super Thrive (stop laughing - I figure it can't
hurt). 2) When I remove it, I use a chopstick or roothook (depending on
how bad it is) to loosen the outer layer of circling roots. I'll also use
the chopstick (as well as fingers and thumbs) to probe into the "soil" and
loosen it. 3) I then use a garden hose set to the hardest stream I can
get. 4) I'll then use the roothook to begin combing out the roots. 5)
Repeat 2 - 4 as necessary with an occasional 1 thrown in when exhaustion
sets in or I seem to be making no progress. I have to admit, usually, this
seems to work fairly well and I end up with some decently spreading roots.
However, what really got me frustrated over the last few weeks is that I
spent a little more to get some larger stock and the roots were SO bad that
I couldn't completely untangle them. After the responses regarding nursery
practices, however, I understand better why that is. I REALLY wish I lived
closer to Brent to buy all of my stock from him. All I can afford from him
though, with shipping as a major consideration, are the smaller plants.
With the way he takes care of his plants, they require almost no rootwork at
all - just make sure they are still spread out correctly when they get
repotted! I do make my purchases, as much as possible, at Bonsai nurseries.
Unfortunately, for all the reasons mentioned, the large plants that have
been properly prepared to be Bonsai are 2 to 3 times (or more) as expensive
as the equivalent nursery plant. A lot less work - but, alas, I do have
more time than money....

Jeff Isom
Cleveland, OH / Sunset Zone 39

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

Isom, Jeff , EM, PTL

Thanks. Unfortunately, most of the new trees I have purchase are pines -
which, I believe, are not the best candidates for layering. However, thanks
for the web address - I knew about layering, but the tourniquet/tile thing
gives me some ideas for some of my other trees.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave G [mailtoGlazewski@COMCAST.NET]
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 5:41 PM
To: BONSAI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Subject: Re: [IBC] Nursery stock and circling/intertwined roots


You could try using the tourniquet method to create a new nebari. I just
bought some plants that had huge single or otherwise bad root systems and I
am using this method. Using a wire tourniquet or planting them in the ground
through a tile should give you quite a nice result in a year or two. There
is a very nice explanation of this method here
http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATNebari.html

Dave Glazewski
Portland CT zone 6

"Isom, Jeff , EM, PTL" <Jeff.Isom@PENSKE.COM> wrote in message
news:87FC4D6C5FBDD311A6F00008C7E6F4C624326C6B@excm sg01ptlge.penske.com...
> I'm looking for some suggestions/hints/tricks/lessons learned....
> I have purchased a number of nursery plants this year and have found that
as
> I get into the process of combing out the roots - they are an absolute
mess.
> Unfortunately, I don't have ready access to wild trees (alps, rockies, or
> even smokies) or even field grown; so am stuck with nursery stock.
Saturday
> I spent over 2 hours trying to comb the roots out on a Mugho pine. This
was
> a 3 gallon tree with a really nice trunk AND what appeared to be a fairly
> good nebari. However, when I got it home and actually got working on it I
> discovered that the roots circled and intertined so bad there was no way
to
> completely get them straightend. I did the best that I could, but I know
it
> will probably take some more serious work again (maybe twice more) in the
> future just to get the roots into decent shape. Is there some trick to
this
> that I'm simply not aware of? Is there some way to tell in advance - I
mean
> I dig down with my fingers as far as I can while at the nursery, but it
> isn't always that obvious. This is not a one-time thing either. Every
tree
> I've purchased this year with any trunk size at all seems to have this
> problem. I believe someone else mentioned a similar problem with a
Hillier
> Elm not too long ago. I need some HELP!
>
> Jeff Isom
> Cleveland, OH / Sunset Zone 39
>
>
************************************************** **************************
****
> ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
>
************************************************** **************************
****
> >>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
> +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** **************************
****
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

Steve wachs

There is nothing wrong with nursey stock. Depending on the Species it can be
very successful. When I work with nusery stock or collected trees. I find
the surface roots and the lowesrt branch. From there I decide how i am going to
design my tree.If you remove alot of leaves or needles. you can probably
remove the same proportion from the roots. Don't forget to use tree wound to
cover scars. The tree may not be ready for bonsai pot for a couple of years,
but this is the fun part, to me.
Good Luck with your new trees.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

Steve wachs

There is nothing wrong with nursery stock. Depending on the Species it can
be very successful. When I work with nursery stock or collected trees. I find
the surface roots and the lowest branch. From there I decide how I am going
to design my tree. If you remove a lot of leaves or needles. you can probably
remove the same proportion from the roots. Don't forget to use tree wound to
cover scars. The tree may not be ready for bonsai pot for a couple of years,
but this is the fun part, to me.
Good Luck with your new trees.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++