[IBC] Bonsai mix - source for organic component(s)

John Dhom

Hey all,

I'm spending inordinate amounts of time sieving my organic material and
could use some encouraging words regarding a) better sources, b) better
materials, c) better techniques, d) better tools. Currently I'm using pine
bark, by the bag from lowes/home despot. Typically I double screen into 2 or
3 sizes. Too much wood parts to pull out and too little yield for the effort
expended. blah, blah, blah.

I like to use the same mix, components, for my big herb/flower containers as
well. So, in terms of quantity I'm looking at less than a pickup truck load
of sieved organic material, all sizes combined, per year.

Generally speaking I see 3 categories of options...
1) better source material (bulk sized a la Brent/CA, bark/bark product
with significantly better yield)
2) better sieve (read bigger)
3) mechanical sieve (hammer mill, whatever)

So... given the quantity I need what are your thoughts?

BTW... I'm currently planning a trip to a tree farm in McMinnville(sp?),
they do containers, to see what they're using for their mix. My current
round of calls is a search for hammer mill rental (with replaceable screens)
with the intent of using bark mini-nuggets as source.

Help me, help me, help me

Central Tennessee, USDA zone 6a-6b, Sunset zone 33

Advertisement

susieq

John,
One suggestion would be for you to purchase enough stuff to get the best discounts on components, mix it up and sell what you don't use...... I had been working with a man who taught as well as grew bonsai, who slowly evolved into selling tools, pots, soil, wire, pre bonsai and bonsai....he started going to several conventions a year. I had worked with him for close to 9 years. He passed a way a couple of months ago. His widow asked me if I wanted to buy the sifter. (he had built a machine that sifted, using an electric motor). At first, I said no, I didn't want to get into that. But then I thought it over and said yes.

I did it because if I didn't buy it, I would be at the mercy of who ever did buy it. I did it to make sure I always have soil, and what ever I don't need for my own use, I will sell. His widow is including all the sorces for material, as well as the recipe. One of the other students said he would help out anytime I needed it.
I still dread the thought of it, but there are a large number of bonsai folk in the area and if I make it, they will come........ If you make it, they will come. Teacher sold it in "sandbags". They hold about a 5 gal bucket full and that amount went for $15. It was stored in large plastic garbage cans once it was mixed. My understanding is that at that price, he did quite well with it and it was in great demand.... Just a suggestion.
Regards, susieq

Corcoran. Bil

Or option 4)

Don't use ANY organic component. I dropped out the organic component
this year for exactly the reasons you're stating here.

Wmcorcor
NEPA Zone 4-5

Steven Wachs

I like to use Miracle Grow potting mix, sand, perlite, peat moss, and
compost. Generally in equal proportions for junipers I add more sand and for pines
even more sand. When I repot. I recycle my soil. adding usually repot every 2
to 3 years. I grow maples in cedar boxes I water all trees everyday. This
proportions works well with my watering habits and seasonal conditions where I
live. I find it easier to adjust my soil to coincide with my watering habits.
I am not losing trees. so I am happy with my set up for now.
I grow Japanese Maples, Pines, Elms, Hornbeam, Beech, Junipers and Azaleas.
The bottom line is that you should use mixtures that suits your needs.
Sometimes it's by trial and error. Sometimes you find information that is
adaptable to your situation. there is no right way. there are only wrong ways if you
lose trees

SteveW

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

Jim Lewis

You don't indicate how much soil you need to make each year, but
I'll tell you what _I_ have started to do -- FWIW.

I buy my organic component (pine bark NUGGETS) from Lowes or Home
Depot in spring of year 1. I empty the two bags into two large
growing boxes that sit out exposed to the Florida elements. In
the winter of year 1, I bury all of my smallest trees (40 or 50
trees under 6 inches until this disastrous spring) in the boxes
of bark nuggets and just leave them there for the winter,
exposed to rain, freeze-thaw, etc. (If you don't need it for
winter protection, just leave it out in the elements for a year.)

In the EARLY spring of year 2 after I've rescued and repotted all
of the tiny trees, I start grinding up the now-pretty-rotten pine
bark nuggets -- I have a hand-cranked grinder originally made to
grind up stuff for compost that breaks the nuggets down to a
smaller (and sometimes even useful) size. The larger parts of
this smaller stuff then goes into an old and nearly worn out food
processor and is ground to flake size and then screened (lots of
powder) and added to the bonsai soil -- mostly turface.

I make 3-4 paint buckets of soil every year. This process takes
a year and 2 days. ;-) That's not too much time, eh?

Fresh pine bark nuggets are simply too hard to break up -- and as
you say the shredded stuff is 40% wood chips which you do NOT
want in your soil.

To someone else who responded: That Miracle Grow soil is too
fine for even my tiny trees! And too costly for as much soil as
I make.

Jim Lewis - jklewis@nettally.com - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

Tom Kehoe

John,

Down here in the sub-tropical zone of Florida, one common formula for bonsai soil is one part sharp sand, one part turface, and one part "organic" -- generally a fine pine chip that is sieved from a product called "soil conditioner." The product is nothing more than well-decayed pine mulch. I sieve mine by hand using standard bonsai soil sieves.

Tom Kehoe
tkehoe@cfl.rr.com

Craig Cowing

Tom Kehoe wrote:

> John,
>
> Down here in the sub-tropical zone of Florida, one common formula for bonsai
> soil is one part sharp sand, one part turface, and one part "organic" --
> generally a fine pine chip that is sieved from a product called "soil
> conditioner." The product is nothing more than well-decayed pine mulch. I
> sieve mine by hand using standard bonsai soil sieves.
>
> Tom Kehoe
> tkehoe@cfl.rr.com
>

What I've started to do this year was inspired by Anita. I have a compost pile
where my grass clippings, kitchen scraps, dead leaves, misc. pieces of rotten
wood, etc. go. The sides of the pile (3 bins) I made out of discarded pallets.
She uses her compost as the organic component in her soil. I was skeptical at
first, thinking that it would turn to mud, but found that compost actually has good
drainage--it's fluffy. She doesn't sift hers, but I generally sift mine and find
it's a good, cheap way to get organic material.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

Jim Stone

I've tried the all inorganic route myself and am not a convert. I was hoping
to see phenomenal growth and health as is purported to occur with such mixes as
straight akadama but that did not occur. I was not dissatisfied- everything
grew "fine" but the search for my own personal Holy Grail continues...

I wanted more water retention and less salt retention so of late I've returned
to a 20-30% component of organic and amendments (i.e., shagnum,
bonemeal, "zeolite", "volcanic sand", etc., the rest being possibly haydite,
brickchips and/or perlite.

The other driving force was, as I am a student of Mr. Lewis, was to approach as
nearly as possible the "school mix" as best I could using materials I have
available.

I echo all the sentiments here. Currently I tend to use "hardwood mulch" as
one gets a better yield and I'm told it maintains it's integrity a bit longer.

I'll still use the Home Despot mulch for collected trees. I'm less worried
about 1/2 shredded 6" chunks of 2x4 there... One of the side bar risks of pine
products are tannins. The overall problem being altered pH and growth
suppressing chemicals; the same would be true of oak and other nut tree
products such as pecan...

The "ultimate" organic thus far seems to be fir bark or "orchid mix" which is
fast fading as orchid growers are switching to coconut hull and other such
materials that just reduce to a slimy mess in a season here...

What is the best choice for you really depends on several factors all going
back to your case particulars, namely, watering/feed schedule, climate, desired
repotting frequency, etc., etc.,

Jim Stone
Galveston TX

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

Craig Cowing

Jim Stone wrote:

> I've tried the all inorganic route myself and am not a convert. I was hoping
> to see phenomenal growth and health as is purported to occur with such mixes as
> straight akadama but that did not occur. I was not dissatisfied- everything
> grew "fine" but the search for my own personal Holy Grail continues...
>
> <snip>
>
> What is the best choice for you really depends on several factors all going
> back to your case particulars, namely, watering/feed schedule, climate, desired
> repotting frequency, etc., etc.,
>
> Jim Stone
> Galveston TX

This sums it up nicely, Jim. I have never gone inorganic and don't plan to. For
me, the inorganic route wouldn't be good. Even though I am at home during the day
much more than many people, I don't feel I can expose my trees to that level of
dryness. Sometimes I have to skip a day of watering because I'm away, and with
inorganic soil that would not be possible.

The only plants I keep in totally inorganic soils are succulents and cacti.
Everything else has organic material.

Ok, now the question is going to come up about water retention in bark, which as I
understand is not that great. This is why I am finding that compost is a good
component. It actually retains water.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++