Systemics are not allowed on Elms!

Leslie3200

Wow! Good timing on my part to find this a current thread. I just joined this group as I have been searching to find how to rid my elms of scale. One is a cork bark, probably, and the other was named after a woman? Hiller or something? Sorry, but it's all fading away from my memory banks as they have been planted in the ground for several years due to too many tragic losses after moving from zone 9 to zone 5. Last summer I noticed they had gross infestations of scale. I almost used Cygon but did a search and found that elms didn't like it. Now it's winter and I should either do a dormant spray or perhaps the Marathon (imicopriamid or something - it's the same stuff they use on dogs and cats to kill fleas, I believe).

I would really like to know exactly when I should treat them. The cork bark elm will be especially difficult to spray effectively, so I'd prefer the systemic. Should I wait until it starts leafing out, or let it get it's leaves well established first? Maybe right now? Any advice? What time of year did you use it Hector?

I'm zone 5 and they are currently under the snow, but it's been up to 50 degrees and before I know it, it will be spring!

Thanks
Leslie

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redhawkbonsai

Eeiko, ya better cut that out!!! LOL

Just got back on the net and I’d been thinking about starting a thread like this a couple of days ago, after seeing the first signs of SPRING down here in south Texas (the Blue Bonnets and all my Bald Cypress’ are in bud/Bloom) and thinking about the “little critters “ and Insecticides.

I will say that everybody has their own methods of treating for them.
Here I have to treat on a preventive method. I try to spray an Insecticide, mite-icide and fungicide (all in one, also can be mixed with fertilizer too) at least every 4 to 6 weeks during the growing season. I use a couple of brands of systemic organophosphate insecticides/fungicides.

It is not the systemic that is the problem; it’s the type of organophosphate being used on the wrong plant. I have yet to find a fungicide, used properly, that will harm any tree.. I found that Ortho makes a couple of types that are very effective for my problems “Orthenex” & “Systemic Insect Killer”. Both have Insecticide, mite-icide and fungicide in it and they both take care of all my problems, without using Neem oil, Kelthane, or Malathion – see below.

Kelthane was taken off the market by the EPA sometime in the late 80’s because Kelthane was said to be a carcinogenic.

Don’t trust any organophosphate they all can be carcinogenic.

Always wear protective gear when using them!

I have seen Kelthane is back on the market (hum strange huh, EPA) this is the best to combat spider mites on junipers, but not on elms…see below.

For example, coming from a long time using these chemicals I have experienced...

1)Do not use Neem oil on any type of elms, it will defoliate them and can kill them.

2)Do not use Kelthane on any type of elms, it will defoliate them and can kill them.

3)Do not use Malathion on Buttonwoods it can kill them.


*Neem oil and Kelthane are usually used in a systemic insecticide and I suspect this is where you are relating to “no systemic on elms”.


With having several quantities of many types of species with different types of insects attacking them “Ya gotta keep your guard up”. Just to name a few problems when growing bonsai here...

* Spider mites can attack very fast and this happens all growing season.
Has anybody lost a juniper from spider mites? Of course you have if you been doing bonsai a while.
Red spider mites will kill them almost before you can notice they are there. You’ve heard “if you see the signs (webs) it’s probably too late”.

* Cuban Laurel Thrips can and will attack several different types of Ficus ALL during the growing season.

* “The Boogie worms” (not identified yet, little green warms) that ONLY attack bougainvilleas during the summer.

* White flies, aphids, scale, grubs and snails (not insects, but still a pest) come and go during our growing season.

Be glad you’re not down here doing bonsai…sometimes we say BONZAI to the critters! LOL

Good hunting,
redhawk

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Repotter

Leslie, I'm really not sure about using any of what I mentioned (systemic) in outdoor situation, assuming they are planted in the ground and without pots.
All my applications are in the greenhouse and of course in either nursery pots or bonsai pots.
I would check the label instructions to be sure.

Good luck, Hector

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Leslie3200

If it didn't kill them in a pot, it will probably be OK in the ground. I think I'll do some searches on how to use the Marathon and use it alone, no dormant oil.

I'm glad it seems to be OK for elms and who knows - maybe I'll dig them up again sometime and put them back in a pot. I used to plant them in the ground but would put a piece of linoleum down about 6" to a foot to keep the roots from getting too deep, but I haven't done that in this case.

I do hate scale with a passion! And I've squished a million or so of them, but they are awfully tenacious, especially on the elms.

Thanks!
Leslie

eeiko321

i wonder if praying mantis eats scales.....hmmm

since they got a tough outer shell

Leslie3200

Further searching on my part showed that the imiclopramid (might not be spelled right) or Marathon only killed a small percentage of the scale on the plant so I've decided to use dormant oil. Any time now as the days are in the 40s (Farenheit) lately and the snow is melting fast.

I'll try to remember to let you know if it seems to work this summer.

Leslie

PatArizona

G'day Leslie...et al...

Have you ever tried CARL'S SOAP SOLUTION for scale?

Carl says This works for almost any kind of pest that attacks your trees, including scale.

I've used Carl's for years...it works for me.

Nothing to do with Carl's, however...

"...I would check the label instructions to be sure..." is something that everybody needs to practice...regligiously. And, never use any "cide" of any kind on any plant that is not listed on the label...unless you are not concerned about the survival of the plant.

Pat

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BONSAI isn't about surviving in a storm, rather, how to dance in the rain.
THE ONLY WAY: Always remember, and don't ever forget, that whatever you read here is not cast in concrete... the intent of any advice is to help. In no way should you feel that I’m saying that my way is the only way…heaven forbid! I've seen far too much of the "my way or the highway" attitude in bonsai as well as in other areas of life.