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Mystery Illness

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Old 2-Sep-2007   #1
kalima13
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Huh? Mystery Illness

Hello all, I'm new and need some help with a diagnosis.

I was gifted a needle juniper last August and until about three weeks ago it seemed healthy. Unfortunately, I have to keep it indoors since I live in Boston; I realize that the juniper is an outdoor plant, and I've been doing my best to monitor the humidity and light levels despite the fact that outdoors would be preferable---I've only given it a bit more water over the summer to keep it from drying out. Over the last winter I kept it in a back room with no heat, weak light, and occasional watering. The window was open a bit as long as the temperature was in the double-digits. I'm worried that the tree has not wintered properly and is suffering as a result.

This, unfortunately for my inexperience, is no mallsai. It's a formidable windswept-cascade style that originated from a specialty nursery. The middle section of each large needle, on the outermost clouds, has turned gray. The trunk is still well alive, as are most of the branches; the scratch test turns green. There were red spider mites about six months ago, but the tree (one cloud) was treated and they haven't been seen since. I've taken the liberty of removing the wiring in case the sap flow was somehow restricted and checked the roots for pests (I can't find any).

Is this somehow a case of classic overwatering? Or is there another possible cause? Is it just going into dormancy early? And, most importantly, how can I help get the tree healthy again without the option of placing it outdoors?

Thank you very much for your help,
Sabrena
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Old 2-Sep-2007   #2
Vance Wood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalima13
Hello all, I'm new and need some help with a diagnosis.

I was gifted a needle juniper last August and until about three weeks ago it seemed healthy. Unfortunately, I have to keep it indoors since I live in Boston; I realize that the juniper is an outdoor plant, and I've been doing my best to monitor the humidity and light levels despite the fact that outdoors would be preferable---I've only given it a bit more water over the summer to keep it from drying out. Over the last winter I kept it in a back room with no heat, weak light, and occasional watering. The window was open a bit as long as the temperature was in the double-digits. I'm worried that the tree has not wintered properly and is suffering as a result.

This, unfortunately for my inexperience, is no mallsai. It's a formidable windswept-cascade style that originated from a specialty nursery. The middle section of each large needle, on the outermost clouds, has turned gray. The trunk is still well alive, as are most of the branches; the scratch test turns green. There were red spider mites about six months ago, but the tree (one cloud) was treated and they haven't been seen since. I've taken the liberty of removing the wiring in case the sap flow was somehow restricted and checked the roots for pests (I can't find any).

Is this somehow a case of classic overwatering? Or is there another possible cause? Is it just going into dormancy early? And, most importantly, how can I help get the tree healthy again without the option of placing it outdoors?

Thank you very much for your help,
Sabrena


You have kind of answered your own question, Junipers cannot live indoors for very long without expert care and sophisticated lighting, watering and air control. I have known of only one person to accomplish this stunt for more than a year or two. In a word or two it is your trying to grow the tree indoors that is killing it. Junipers are for the most part temperate trees and need the outdoor environment of wind, rain, and fluctuating temperatures to trigger hormonal changes that keep the tree in cycle. Without that cycle they will weaken and die. It is much like you or me trying to live without any sleep what-so-ever. You might do it for a while but eventually you will weaken and most likely die.
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Old 3-Sep-2007   #3
kalima13
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Question Other Options?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance Wood
You have kind of answered your own question, Junipers cannot live indoors for very long without expert care and sophisticated lighting, watering and air control. I have known of only one person to accomplish this stunt for more than a year or two. In a word or two it is your trying to grow the tree indoors that is killing it. Junipers are for the most part temperate trees and need the outdoor environment of wind, rain, and fluctuating temperatures to trigger hormonal changes that keep the tree in cycle. Without that cycle they will weaken and die. It is much like you or me trying to live without any sleep what-so-ever. You might do it for a while but eventually you will weaken and most likely die.
I understand that keeping the bonsai indoors is an uphill battle; without an option to place it outdoors (as even at a relative's house the tree would not get enough attention) I am asking for other options rather than to give up on this "stunt." I'd just like to confirm that the change in color has nothing to do with overwatering (or a pest, or fungus) and what exactly this color change indicates in terms of the juniper's needs. I have not yet found any published material that shows how to adapt an indoor environment enough to mimic the conditions that a juniper needs---but clearly, as you stated yourself, it can be done.

I've read that florescent lights (with high lumens) may help. Is this true?

Is it the lack of a dormancy cycle that's directly responsible for its ill health? Is there a way to get its life cycle "back on track," as it were?

Thank you (all),
S.
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Old 3-Sep-2007   #4
Vance Wood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalima13
I understand that keeping the bonsai indoors is an uphill battle; without an option to place it outdoors (as even at a relative's house the tree would not get enough attention) I am asking for other options rather than to give up on this "stunt." I'd just like to confirm that the change in color has nothing to do with overwatering (or a pest, or fungus) and what exactly this color change indicates in terms of the juniper's needs. I have not yet found any published material that shows how to adapt an indoor environment enough to mimic the conditions that a juniper needs---but clearly, as you stated yourself, it can be done.

I've read that florescent lights (with high lumens) may help. Is this true?

Is it the lack of a dormancy cycle that's directly responsible for its ill health? Is there a way to get its life cycle "back on track," as it were?

Thank you (all),
S.


Not meaning to be flippant or seeming to be rude, and I realize you would like a different answer. The truth remains that keeping a Juniper indoors is almost always the kiss of death for them. I have known many who have tried and all but one has failed. I am not sure what he is doing that is right that the rest of us aren't getting. Unless you can find out from him exactly what needs to be done it is likely you will lose your tree. I certainly hope to be wrong and will rejoice in my being so. Unfortunately Jack Wickle does not frequent any forum I know of.
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Old 3-Sep-2007   #5
kalima13
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance Wood
Not meaning to be flippant or seeming to be rude, and I realize you would like a different answer. The truth remains that keeping a Juniper indoors is almost always the kiss of death for them. I have known many who have tried and all but one has failed. I am not sure what he is doing that is right that the rest of us aren't getting. Unless you can find out from him exactly what needs to be done it is likely you will lose your tree. I certainly hope to be wrong and will rejoice in my being so. Unfortunately Jack Wickle does not frequent any forum I know of.
I appreciate the sympathy, for I never would have purchased the plant myself knowing that it needs to be outdoors. Alas, as the situation stands, I am willing to try some alternatives. What do you think of fluorescent light? Is it worth a try?
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Old 6-Sep-2007   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalima13
I appreciate the sympathy, for I never would have purchased the plant myself knowing that it needs to be outdoors. Alas, as the situation stands, I am willing to try some alternatives. What do you think of fluorescent light? Is it worth a try?

Yes if you put the tree in a refrigerator over winter, otherwise your tree has already skipped a years dormancy, and may already be ready for the 2x4 factory. The back room with no heat isn't going to help unless the temps get down to the 32-39 range, and they have to stay there, not up and down willy nilly.

" I'd just like to confirm that the change in color has nothing to do with overwatering (or a pest, or fungus) and what exactly this color change indicates in terms of the juniper's needs.

We would all like a color chart to tell us exactly what our trees need, it's not that simple, but it may be a combo of all of them.
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