When to dig wild trees?

Jay

Capt Jack, I have to agree with the spirit of your last reply, Everyone needs to adjust the advise received for their own situation. You have the good fortune to have a wonderful growing season. Your winters are not as severe as mine up north.

I just get a little on edge when a [i:f99f74c17f]general rule[/i:f99f74c17f] is proposed. I have read books from Europe and Asia that are wonderful but the dates are way off for my area. Just to make my point.... I live in Zone 5b/6a. My trees, as well as the native in ground trees have leafed out already. I have a summer home that I opened last weekend, it is still in NY state but about 250 miles north. As of Memorial Day the local trees are still just starting to bud out. I think your trees leafed out way before mine. If we want to collect before the trees have leafed out, it is just to late for me, possibly late by several weeks for you and still possible up north in the Adirondacks, hey, it snowed while I was there. Finally, other than this year, which was extremely mild, if I tried to collect anything in February or early March I would need something to break through the frozen soil that would still be present. That summer home mentioned above, is on a lake. The lake had 'ice out' this mild year April 14.

I just worry that some 'guest' to this list will see us talking and think it is gospel. Some people do not dig for info. Hey... as i said, its just my opinion and who am I to argue with your results

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A Bonsai student living with his trees at N 44.37 W 77.49...
Think before you act... then think again... no good comes from rushing

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Bonsainut

Kalei,
As a rule the best time to do any operation on plant material is when they are strongest. When is that? Just shortly before they emerge from dormancy.
I think you are your own best expert as to when to collect these puppies.
Because you live there. You have observed these trees over the years.
Don't take them in Autumn. Be patient. Scout, trim, investigate roots, plan. Early spring will be here again before you know it.
I envy you too. I thought you should know that.---B

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Keep growing,---'Nut



Lethal Use of Farce

ripsgreentree

Kalei: Yes I work with field grown trees. I use several techniques to help lesson the shock of transplanting. The most importiant is the creation of masses of feeder roots. In the wild you will find that a fairly small and young tree will have a long tap root with very little small feeder roots. When you cut this main artery to the top of the tree, your collected tree will have to create new lateral roots to servive on. This is why collecting in the spring just as the buds swell is importiant. First the tree produces foliage from energy stored in the trunk of the tree and then this foliage will produce roots that you need. The trick is keeping the foliage alive long enough to grow the new roots. Spring gives you the best chance of doing this, You will also find that collecting as many roots as possible will greatly increase your chances of succes. In the case of field grown material the roots are cut many times creating the root system that is required to keep a bonsai healthy.
ripsgreentree

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ripsgreentree

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ripsgreentree

Capt, Jack: I will give you an example of why information should be zone specific.
One of our dominant collectors in fresno had a problem with insects. It was summer and our tempratures were reaching 100 degrees. Our collector was at a show in northern California and talking with a grower from northern origon. The Origon grower suggested that our collector use volk oil to control the insects, and he came home and sprayed his entire collection. The result was that he lost every tree. In northern Origon at 68 degrees Volk oil is harmles and a good way to control insects. In Fresno at 100 degrees it is fatal for your trees. This is just one example of why it is importiant to give information that is correct in the environment that you are speaking to. What works for you may be death for someone elses trees. This is why some folks will get on edg if your information is general. Do not be discoraged this is a great art form..............ripsgreentree

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ripsgreentree

It requires an open hand to give and to recieve.

jackmickelberg(deceased)

You're right. It just makes ME on edge when I'm flamed twice in the same day for offering my humble opinion (see http://www.memobug.com/treebay/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=Beginners&action=display&num=102278 9071&start=8 )

So I'll just keep my opinions to myself. I hope nobody's trees died because of me.

Capt. Jack

Carl_Bergstrom

Flamed




Don't confuse disagreement with flaming.

As an aside, Jay is right on here. If you want to make your page as useful as possible, one thing that would help a lot would be a disclaimer stating that the chart won't work for all areas and is no substitute for common sense, knowledge, and most of all the feedback of a few knowledgable people in one's own area, e.g. in a local club.

If you look at Bonsai Techniques I, Naka offers a long bold-faced disclaimer about his timing chart, and how it only works for Southern California. Elsewhere, he explains, your mileage may vary. Naka seems like an admirable role model to follow.

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In love with trees

TreeBay

One point that sometimes gets overlooked is that we have folks here from all backgrounds representing every continent on earth, (save Antarctica, as far as I know). Each of us has a different growing environment, and it is tempting to put forward what we have found to work for us as general advice. I'm sure I do it all the time, and I appreciate it when someone points out when and where my generalizations don't hold up.

I thank anyone who takes the time to put forward an idea or opinion, but it would be shortsighted not to expect discussion, support or questions, or even disagreement. So long as that is based in experience or reason, and the individuals are treated with respect, I think discussion is healthy.

I recognize the effort involved in assimilating the information that went into the chart, and it might be great advice for one guy in Mississippi to give another in Colorado. I don't know because I haven't spent more than a few weeks in either state. I think controversy arose mainly out of an inference in readers' minds that this advice was intended to be "the answer:"

[quote:d8dd5ad11f] ...Go to my web site- I have a calendar that I have culled from numerous bonsai books. It tells When to collect Deciduous, evergreens, when to fertilize, when to wire, etc. It has been an invaluable tool for me, hopefully it will help you!...[/quote:d8dd5ad11f]

The first thing I learned when I started contributing material to this forum was to talk about "seasons," not months. If you tried this calendar in the southern hemisphere, many of your trees would be dead . The seasons are different. (Ask Juliet-of-oz about collecting in Australia in February while they're chewing rockmelon on the beach, or taking cuttings in July when the trees are bare.)

Climate varies a lot even within the United States. If I blindly followed a chart and repotted in June, many of my trees would be toast: I don't have that humid summer with the overcast and awesome sticky heat that makes that possible. It doesn't rain here until November, if we're lucky. (Incidentally, November is quite often when we collect because the soil gets soft enough and it hasn't snowed yet.)

On the other hand, If I were in Hawaii, I might look at that chart and wonder why it made any difference at all when I repot or collect or take cuttings. That thinking might be right.

I confess, I missed the flames*** the first time. I went back and tried to see the flames in both threads. I didn't see flames. I did see discussion, disagreement, contrary advice, examples and opinions, which is what a forum, I think, should be.

Regards,

Matt

***P.S. Just so we are on the same page, Websters defines "flames" as: 5 : an angry, hostile, or abusive electronic message. I see "Flames" as posts that are intended to discredit or disparage another author or promote bad feeling.

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Tony

Jack, I don't see any flaming in this or the other post you refered to. Disagreement, debate, opinions? Yes. And what's wrong with that? We all learn from each other on this forum and none of us know it all. I have always learned more through debates and controversial discussion than any other way. We as growers and in a more general sense, we as people, tend to get into ruts, thinking are way is the right way and there is no other way to do it. You'll see this in bonsai to be sure. As soon as you make a blanket statment, someone will come along and challenge it, and they will most likely be right! Not that their way is better or would even work for you, but you can bet someone out there is doing it differently.

Stick around for awhile and see how this place works. You're sure to learn about bonsai and that's why we're here. Right? I came here through the bonsaiweb.com forum. Somehow after 9-11 it went down and when it came back it was merged with Treebay. [ I still havn't got an explanation of how that happened, Matt?] Anyway my point is, Matt has really built this site up in the last nine months to one of the best on the net. I was just thinking, not that I've counted, but I'll bet that Treebay has probably surpassed the gardenweb bonsai forum in new posts per day. Most all the folks around here are honest and friendly, what more could you ask for?

Tony

ripsgreentree

Capt Jack: If I offended I am sorry, The example that I gave is a true story. This was offered as a learning experiance and not intended to be offencive. I hope that you will continue to interact with bonsai talk.
Respectfully.............ripsgreentree

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ripsgreentree

It requires an open hand to give and to recieve.