Some Collected Elms From Spring 05

EarthgirlOK

These are some elms and winged elms (the first two pics) I collected this spring. They are vigorously growing-I have to stay on top of the new shoots every other day or so.

One is going to end up as a mame, one is a shohin, and probably the third one too. The two smallest ones have a flare at the base that is buried under the soil for stability during root development. But they'll be lifted in their new pots eventually. They were all growing out of rock (limestone), which caused the swell at the base. I may do a sort of layer eventually to get more visible roots around the bases.

Collection of these was done strictly with hammer and wedge and hand pruners. They were left to soak in a nearby pool of water in their plastic bags while other trees were being collected. A couple of hours later and after a sandwhich, they were potted up in training pots because their roots were shallow and fibrous enough to do so. Two others didn't make it because there weren't enough roots. One of them broke off during collection. I tried to treat it like a cutting, but it was just too aged for that to work.

The first one has a rock imbedded in it.

Attached Images

	Collected Elm 1.gif (67.2 KB, 155 views)
	Collected Elm 2.gif (64.5 KB, 145 views)
	Collected Elm 3 Other Side.gif (68.7 KB, 141 views)

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Ralph

Good stuff, trunks have good movement. As I am sure you know, you have to rely on the interesting bark, and trunk movement because these winged elms don't taper much in growth. But these look excellent. The middle one looks to have a lot of potential.

I don't know what your plan from here is, but I got several cedar elms I collected earlier in the year that are very similar cousins. I have been instructed by more experienced club members to leave them alone for a couple of years while they grow new, more compact root systems, and then I can look at more final styling. Right now, I just have taken off branches I didn't need, have lightly pruned others. Hoping to get branches where I do need them.

Good luck with yours.

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Emerging from winter slumber
Bonsai trees burst buds anew
Spring is upon us!


-Paul S.

EarthgirlOK

Ralph

Thanks, they're a few years away from being much. What you can't see are the trunks under the soil-there is surprising taper because they were basically growing through holes in rock. But it is true that there is no taper in the branches themselves. It was possible with patience and work, to break the rock from around them to get them up. These that lived, had most of their roots right there under the shallow layers of rock. But you're probably right about waiting. The middle one had some real problems, no branches in the right places, one that goes right straight up, etc, I probably cut off the wrong branch while I was collecting it...I'll have to get a different pic of it to show you. I really don't know where it will go. I do think I won't make any decisions, though, until I can really look more at the nebari.

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rockm

Nice trunks. I would remove all the branching on them in the next couple of years and start from scratch however. The branches you have now, especially the ones at the tops of the trunks will be out of scale with newer lower branches. They also mostly all in awkward positions.

Elms are very apically dominant. .They will thicken old top branches quickly. Those need to be pruned hard back, and I mean hard back, every few years to keep them from dominating the lower branches.

This is down the road however. I would refrain from pruning anything on these this soon after collection. You are slowing their recovery by removing new growth and setting yourself up for possible winter dieback of the twigs and growth that are on the tree already.

The cedar elms that Iv'e collected over the years are incredibly hardy plants and can take alot of hard pruning, top and bottom. However, it has to be done at the correct time--early to mid spring and then only after a year or two recovery time. If you prune new growth the first growing season after collection, I've found that cedar elm can drop newly forming branching the following spring. Unfettered growth helps new potential branches establish pathways to roots. Constant pinching of new growth can slow that process. While that's not really bad for established bonsai (which have already established those pathways)newly collected trees are starting thisprocess from scratch. They need time and unrestrained growth to do so.

I'd feed heavily, as the trees are growing, and leave the new growth alone for now.

EarthgirlOK

Thanks for that information Mark. Hopefully I haven't done irreversible damage by the pruning I already did (prior to posting the pics).

Your advice has often turned out to be right on, much to my annoyance (I do hate to hear the word "no" or "bad idea").

I want to post a couple other views of two of these because I really have not much of a clue as to what to do with them. I collected them because they had some good taper (unseen due to being planted deep for recovery), but the branches are tricky. I s'pose it's too early to think about that anyway.

Michelle

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rockm

I doubt you did any great damage. We've got some growing season left.

It seems you are looking at the trunks as the reason for digging them. That's a big step in collecting. Most people take in the whole image of the tree they're digging as the reason for digging it. They tend to look for "natural bonsai." Mostly that's impossible. "Natural" bonsai are quite rare. What they should look for in good collectible material is the bottom third of the trunk. That is most important part of the collected tree. The rest can be, and probably should be, replaced over the years.

I would let the trees alone next season. Let them go--feed them heavily. No pruning. See what sprouts where and see what's going to die back. Once established, the following season, prune off all the old branches. See where new sprouts emege. Decide which are best positioned. Work from there.

EarthgirlOK

''':::patience, grasshopper:::'''

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