Collecting From Wild

fly

Excuse my ignorance, but does anyone have ethical issues with collecting miniature trees from the wild? I mean, you know the story - leave only footprints, take only memories.... if everyone collects, there will be nothing left, etc...

or am I being ridiculous?

Chris.

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FredL

Chris, it has always seemed to me that a little common sense goes a long way in this area. Myself, I collected lots of seeds when I started and nobody that noticed me plucking them from trees in the woods or from the ornamentals in our local shopping malls seemed to mind. I also collected seedlings from my own yard and from around the neighborhood. Same lack of objections.

Now here's where it gets more controversial, but I'm in a true confessions frame of mind: Where I live, there are miles and miles of back woods roads, lots of cow pastures, lots of unoccupied "resort/retirement lots for sale. Also, areas used hard by the ATV crowd and used to dump everything from beer cans to old refrigerators. I collect trees in these areas and don't ask permission. I collect on the road right-of-way and drainage ditches and in areas badly abused by illegal dumping and ATV recreation. The trees I collect are pretty ho-hum specimens, except for some rather pretty Short Leaf Pines that I've taken from an area treated alot worse than I have been with my collecting by dumpers and ATVers.

I've never had anyone object, including our local Sherrif's deputies.

Now, I'd treat many other situations quite differently. Many situations clearly indicate contacting the property owner and trees of significant value, at least in my opinion, should never be taken, even with permission, unless a person has sufficient expertise to keep them alive and develop them appropritely. Nor, should their collection result in significant loss to the natural environment. At least, in my opinion.

I imagine this response to your question will elicit a certain number of stern, strongly worded lectures about never, ever collecting a tree without getting permission from the property owner. This question always gets alot of that from folks apparently eager for the chance to let the world know all about their moral rectitude. Well, everyone has a right to their own opinion. This is mine.

Best regards, Fred

Tony

From what I hear in certain places in Australia, privets and olive are considered invasive weeds. Work the right deal and they may even pay you to remove them.

Tony

Jay

Chris... I may be one of the "folks apparently eager for the chance to let the world know all about their moral rectitude." Most people have a way to justify what they do. And yes, mostly all of us do things that are 'questionable' as to legality and to what is 'right'. That all said, there are legal issues and ownership issues for you to think about.

There is the thought that it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission also.

This world we live in is getting smaller by the day. We are losing acres and acres of forrest as we speak. We do need to think before we act on collection.

As Fred said he has his opinion others have theirs.... but he will surely agree that the local laws are not opinions and beliefs will not keep you out of jail or law suits if you commit an illegal act.

My belief is that laws and law suits should not be your guideline. You should collect with permission and only what can be collected and survive.

I have mention before that there is an ancient pine on a hiking trail near me, it appears it could be collected with little trouble, but, if it were to be removed it would surely leave a huge whole in the visual landscape that not even a replacement tree would hide.... I would never think to collect this tree... like Fred I have my thoughts and opinions

my 2 cents
Jay

__________________
A Bonsai student living with his trees at N 44.37 W 77.49...
Think before you act... then think again... no good comes from rushing

rockm

for the most part, collectors are well aware of the ethical and bilogical challenges presented by digging up old trees. They know they bear a responsibility to the environment and to the individual tree they're taking.

Most (there are always a few idiots) will take the time to determine if taking a tree would pose a threat to the local landscape and environment before they dig it--those considerations not only incorporate practical considerations, but emotional ones. Digging up a stunted "landscape" pine on a heavily-used hiking trail would pose a problem, for instance.

However, digging the same tree on a remote hillside where it is among a thousand others, wouldn't.

The decisions made by collectors varies tremendously regionally. A "collectable" tree in a Utah forest probably would be a "collectible" tree in a National Park in the Eastern U.S.

The collector also has a responsibility to learn how to care for his quarry before he/she digs it up. That's simple respect.

I think, for the most part, bonsai collectors are staunch protectors of the natural world, since it is that world that they try to capture in their art.

Finally, common sense (as well as many Federal and local laws) dictates you get permission from landowners before helping yourself to the things on their property. That 100 year-old pine you dug out of someone's ditch without asking could wind up costing you $10,000 in fines or legal fees, or a posterior full of buckshot if you get caught red-handed live in Texas ;-)...

fly

Reflecting on everyone's thoughts - what seems saddest to me, is that in some cases, removing a tree (particularly very old ones) - may well be the best way to preserve it.

As was said, "This world we live in is getting smaller by the day".

Imagine, Jay, the ancient pine on the hiking trail you mentioned - imagine if you go back one day, to find someone's burnt it just for fun.....

anyway, thanks for the viewpoints!

Chris.

Jay

Chris, of course you are correct... I could go back and find it burnt or destroyed or even missing by another... BUT...I hope I will not.

To use the 'excuse' I better take it before someone else does it in is an easy way to justify almost anything... but it is poor logic. Someone has to have faith that good will triumph over evil etc..... For that ancient tree to have survived this long means it has survived and I should give it the respect it deserves.....

As rockm implied [with permission] a tree off the beaten path is a collection possibility --- one on the side of a trail probably shouldn't be.

(Please note the following is not my true feelings but a thought taken to the extreme)
Or... should we go around beating up drug addicts and take their money... hey it will only happen anyway, and better I should do it than another junky... probably a (very) bad example...but when does rationalization go to far.....

Jay

__________________
A Bonsai student living with his trees at N 44.37 W 77.49...
Think before you act... then think again... no good comes from rushing

Bart Thomas(deceased)

Jay wrote:

Or... should we go around beating up drug addicts and take their money... hey it will only happen anyway, and better I should do it than another junky...

Watch it, Jay!!

The next group they'll get around to is bonsai nuts!

Happy New Year!

fly

Jay, I hear what you're saying - I was thinking more along the lines of preservation as carried out by an organisation such as New South Wales' National Parks and Wildlife Service - not so much the "well someone's gonna do it - so I may as well do it first!"



Know what I like about all the posts I've read across this site? Everyone's so philosophical! (And I'm referring to people's signatures here!). Having said that, Jay - you're the only one with a signature in this thread...

Happy new year all.. I like these forums; think I'll stick around for a while.

Chris.