And Now, A Word On Nebari

ripsgreentree

Al If I had not gotten Andy into his pissing contest he would not have taken the time to explain him self to the rest of us.
You have some responsibility also on this forum. I find it quite funny that when I make one small point you feel it necessary to write a book to explain your self. You can say what ever you like but the rest of us are reading and some of us will comment on what you say. What ever you think you are doing on this forum, you are teaching!

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ripsgreentree

It requires an open hand to give and to recieve.

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Carl_Bergstrom

Wow - thanks for all of the interesting and helpful answers. Now I have a much better sense of what what people like about this style, and I think I even have a better sense of what it is that I like and don't like about this style.

A few comments. First of all, just so that we're clear on the technical terms , buttressed roots aren't oil slicks. Large roots over rocks aren't oil slicks. Massive twisted roots aren't oil slicks. This is an oil slick:


It's not the worst I've seen; there are some pretty horrible beeches and especialyl stewartias. Basically, by an oil slick I mean a tree with a root base that abruptly shifts from approximately vertical to approximately horizontal and spills out in one disc-like fused mass across the surface of the pot.

Tony's completely right - one certainly wouldn't want to try to correct the oil slick on that triple-trunk (quintuple trunk?) maple shown. Just as I wouldn't necessarily bother to try to correct for the larger foliage on my European beech by grafting Japanese beech onto every branch. That doesn't mean that the bigger foliage is desirable, just that in this case you're pretty much stuck with it.

Al's virtual is very interesting. I have to admit, the tree looks worse without the oil slick! Why?

I think it's something about the fused trunk bases as well. They don't join at the ground; they join quite a bit above this. To me (and this part of why I don't like the style) it almost looks as if the tree was created by a brutal chop followed by growth of several shoots. I know it wasn't fashioned this way, but in opinion it doesn't look all that much better.

So it seems that an oil slick actually helps when you've got fused-base multi-trunk trees. I learned something from that, because I wouldn't have guessed it a priori. Thank you, Al.

Would the trident shown here also look worse if you took away the oil slick? I bet not, but I'll try a virtual once I get the chance and then we can see for ourselves.

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Finally, the question I've always wanted an answer to: is nebari singular, or plural? Please help! Until I figure that out, I can't use the word in a sentence.

All the best,
Old Mister Crow

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Carl_Bergstrom

Here's a virtual, oil slick roots and otherwise.

Which do you like better? I prefer the non-slick one, but I admit that there is a certain stability lended to the upper image.

I think the best of both worlds would be prominant roots spreading about as far as in the oil slick, but as individual roots rather than as a contiguous disc.

-OMC

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stephentoddpope

excellent virtual, i agree, the sec. is better, is that your tree

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"A Bonsai! A Bonsai! My kingdom for a Bonsai!"

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K.A. Rutledge

Hey Carl,

You liked the tree better with the volumonous rootspread because it adheres to artistry! ;-) The reason is that the trunks have only a slight taper - they have little or no taper for much of their rise AND in addition to this, the canopy of the tree is large.

In order to balance this - to make is pleasing to the human eye, the root spread has to be larger than is "normal" to both distract from the lack of rapid taper in the trunks and to balance out the voluminous canopy on top of them. Without the big root carapace, the canopy is too big.

Art, not nature! ;-)

Oh, and "nebari" (as well as all Japanese nouns) is both singular and plural. One nebari, four nebari. ;-)

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
b u n j i n | d e s i g n :: www.bunjindesign.com
zone 8, Texas

Carl_Bergstrom

Bingo! Looking back at the pictures, Andy, I see that you're right on. This is really great. Thanks to both you and Al - I'm picking up so much on this forum!

What if one balanced the canopy with a large but not fused nebari? Wouldn't this be even better? I still can't suspend disbelief long enough to enjoy a tree growing up out of a smooth puddle of fused roots.

Oh, and thanks for the information on the word "nebari". Now when I want to write about the nebari on one of my trees or about all of the nebari on all of Al's trees, I'll be able to do so.

Cheers,
Carl

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Carl_Bergstrom

That one's easy! Pot it in oil-dry and watch that slick disappear.

-Old Mister

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bonsaial1

Rip, You are going through life with blinders on. Can you not see all the great commentary going on around you. The thread is full of so much great stuff, people asking questions and people getting along. Why do you pursist to find one word, "cheap" and turn that into a snotty post. The thread had nothing to do with teaching, I post for information and entertainment only. If someone finds something of value in it, great.



BTW, Rip if I'm teaching, I must be poor at it, cause your not learning. Think about it.



I would appreciate you rereading the whole thread and explain to me where I have asked anyone to go out and buy a tree with poor root, or any tree for that matter. I would love for you to tell me where I have instructed anyone to do anything. This thread has nothing to do with buying material. I have given no pointers as to how to look for material. If you wish to learn, say the word and I will teach you. If I were the moderator of this forum I would ask you to please not put words into peoples posts. You have done it to Me, Matt and Andy R. People do not like to be misquoted, especially when you have nothing to offer but one sided wrong criticism. I love criticism, IF ITS ON TOPIC AND INNTELLIGENT.

Bonsaial

bonsaial1

How about this one OMC, I post this as my entry of the worst example of nebari. Over the top, and many more adjectives.

I think what makes these trees look so misplaced is the fact that they are single trunk designs. The 4/5 trunk designs work due to the fact that the canopy sort of helps diminish the large flat nebari. When done on a single trunk, with a pointed apex like the one I posted and the one OMC posted, the nebari starts to overpower the design. In the good nebari tree from the beginning of the thread, My eye, is not drawn to the nebari first. I seem to take in the whole tree in one quick burst. I see the whole and it is good.

The "gnome" trees on the other hand have the nebari out there all by itself. You can't help but be drawn to it. Allthough, if thats what the artist is tring to acheive, so be it.

Bonsaial

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