And Now, A Word On Nebari

ripsgreentree

Well Al I am glad that roots finally carry some weight with you.

I will say it again good nebari will add stability age and value to your Bonsai. This is a good thing and worth trying to acheve in your trees.
Here is an example of the beginings of nebati on a field grown celtis. While this is far from finished it is at least a good start in the right direction.

Attached Images

celtis nebari.jpg (22.5 KB, 1115 views)

__________________
ripsgreentree

It requires an open hand to give and to recieve.

Advertisement

ripsgreentree

Here is one more example of field grown material this is a european olive. This pot is 4 1/4 in. and the tree is 6 1/2 in. from the soil line to the top of the tree. Just under the soil line and under the nebari is a chop that is the same size as the trunk, about 2 in.

Al you have given excellent examples for a well thought out thread, on a subject that I agree with.
Excellent work Al we can use more of this.

Attached Images

olive nebari.jpg (18.4 KB, 1106 views)

__________________
ripsgreentree

It requires an open hand to give and to recieve.

bonsaial1

I'm glad you approve Rip, Though, I have always held nebari in high regard. Trouble is trees that I have posted do not come cheap. I have not seen the nebari on trees at most of the vendors. Most of the nebari in the pics takes time, and or techniques that I am willing to do myself. Therefore, I will look for a tree with the right trunk and branches, and work on the roots for the next 20 years while enjoying my pleasing to look at tree.

Bonsaial

treenut

Well I've seen a lot of bad things in Bonsai but this definately isn't one of them.Oil spill roots indeed!.I bet the majority of Bonsai lovers wouldn't have a problem with this tree(come on back me up here).Well anyway I've done a virt for Mr Crow so next time he reads this thread He'll really have something to vomit over.

Attached Images

nebari1.jpg (26.1 KB, 1072 views)

Carl_Bergstrom

Treenut, Tony, Al, and others,

In my previous post I tried to very clearly lay out my reasons for disliking this particular "bankon" look, or at least for why I see no need to pursue it with my own trees.

Could you return the favor? I would be interested to hear some specific reasons for why you do find this style to be attractive. In what way do you feel that root base like this contribute to the artistic form of the tree? I'd love to hear something more specific than the logical fallacy "I saw old Japanese trees with a root base like that, and old Japanese trees are bad-ass, therefore a root base like that must be a good thing to shoot for."

To be fair, Al had one thing to offer - he suggested that the base adds a "powerful weight to the composition." OK...that's a good start...and at least that's a reason. I personally think that what is gained in powerful weight costs more than its worth in terms of the distracting and unnatural base - but that's just a personal opinion.

How about the rest of you?

__________________
In love with trees

Tony

Hello Crow,

As you hinted at in your post, these bankon nebari look old. It's this sense of age that I get when I see roots like this that catches my eye. Also the wide base that is created whith these roots makes it look as though it has a good grasp of the earth. It's true what you say. That you won't likely find a full grown tree with a root buttress like this one that happened naturally. Should we throw out the whole concept then? I think not. After all, when we grow the top of a bonsai we don't try to recreate a full size tree branch per branch [crossing and all] either. As you said, what we are after is the illusion or a symbol of an old tree.

I think these bankon roots CAN add to this illusion. Certainly not in every case. Actually there are probably very few trees that would look right with roots like this but in my opinion it works with the triple trunk that Al posted. Come to think of it you won't find many triple trunk trees in nature either but you see quite a few in bonsai pots.

If someone where to give you this tree what would you do with it? Layer it above those nasty roots and start over?

Tony

Attached Images

nebari1.jpg (29.0 KB, 258 views)

treenut

I guess I like this tree because I have similiar types of trees with large flaring bases but no real root detail to speak of.I haven't got a lot to choose from around here so it's either this or just a straight trunk poking out of the ground with no roots.Of course this is not as good as true nebari but is still better than having no taper at all.So my reason for liking this tree would not be so much for what it is,but the fact that it is a hell of a lot better than having no tree at all.

Jay

Well as it is often said, The tree should tell a story. I can see this tree having been around a long time (AGE) and the earth has been washed away by time. Exposing more and more of the roots, which over time have merged for support.

Although a bit much, I do like it. I do not know if I would try and develop the look, but I would not avoid it either!

Just the 2 cents of a Novice!!

__________________
A Bonsai student living with his trees at N 44.37 W 77.49...
Think before you act... then think again... no good comes from rushing

ripsgreentree

You can take almost anything to a breaking point. I have seen Korean tridents that in my mind definatly fall into the catigory that old mr. crow is speaking of. The preticular tree that comes to mind looked like the base of the tree had melted with no division into smaller roots at all. That being said I can not speak out against the multiple trunked tree posted above as I feel that it is a beautiful and powerful bonsai. I would love to own trees that look like this. I feel that when a tree has this kind of root structure It gives the work a feeling of strength, stability and age that by other means is difficult or imposible to atain. This does not mean that this can't be taken to excess. Mr Crow when the foundation of a tree over powers the trunk line and crown I can agree with your arguments but I must say that I have seen very few examples where this has been the case.

Al Bless your heart you say the darndest things. It is my openion that if a person trys to build a collection by buying trunk line and limb structure first and then as you say spend 20 years creating a good root structure there is an exelent chance that you will end up with 20 years of effort in a tree with bad roots.
You say that your trees don't come cheap and that vendors don't have trees with good nebari. It is again my opinion that when a tree has been grown for Bonsai and has good nebari and a decent trunk line its value is going to start at $100.00 and that is cheep bonsai. People who have serious trees in there collections spend much more per tree than that.
You started a good thread and I have said as much, Why then do you tell others to buy a tree for its trunk line and limb structure and try to create nebari later. Wouldn't it be better to say find good nebari and trunk line, buy that and then create good limb structure on a good foundation. Mind you I am just asking.
One last thought...... Al you have put your self in the position of teaching on this forum and you have the attention of many beginers.

__________________
ripsgreentree

It requires an open hand to give and to recieve.