winegrape bonsai trouble

skayam

hi all.

i'm trying to take care of my first bonsai (which isn't a mallsai, was received as a gift which was ordered online, and even came with a pruning kit).

it's a miniature winegrape, and had been doing pretty well for the first 4 weeks that I'd had it. I've been giving it 16-18 hrs of flourescent light (using a timer). giving the leaves and the soil a good misting every day and a root bath once or twice a week. its entirely indoors, no real sunlight (but also no insects) and the temperature is pretty consistent and not too cold (i dont feel cold, and I'm usually pretty sensitive to AC thats too strong)

then I went out of town for about 2 weeks and had someone else care for it... and when i got back, some of the leaves had started turning colors and looking a little dried up and since getting back (been back for about a week) it has dropped a few leaves.

so.. i'm not too sure whats going on with it. I think it might be time to prune it, but i have no idea what to prune. I guess its structure is kind of different from other bonsais since its adapted from a vine... but it's got something like 4 green vine/branch things shooting up from it. One of those is really long and comes out of a side. then theres a smaller shoot from the other side of the trunk, and two more small shoots coming from the top. the really long shoot has some leaves that are turning colors and dropping near the bottom, but at the tip, its still sprouting new healthy looking leaves. As for the small shoots, I'm not sure that they're sprouting as much, but they're not turning colors as much, although some are looking like they want to dry up.

i hope that was a thorough enough description
you can also see pictures of it here:
http://skayam.funformentals.com/bon...cture%20001.jpg
http://skayam.funformentals.com/bon...cture%20002.jpg
http://skayam.funformentals.com/bon...cture%20003.jpg
http://skayam.funformentals.com/bon...cture%20006.jpg

please let me know if you have any suggestions... changing water habits or light or pruning something and what to prune. unfortunately, the instructions it came with are kind of vague. all it says about pruning during the growing season is "more for aesthetic purposes, remove long shoots that haven't fruited leaving two nodes. This creates good branchlet structure and canopy development." I guess it suggests removing the really long shoot that I described, but I'm more concerned with the tree's survival then aesthetics right now. =P

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Bonsai Barry

Don't give up on it even if it loses its leaves. My grape lost its leaves last year in July and grew a new set in the fall. Although you haven't yet filled out a profile indcating which growing region you're from, I'd also suggest keeping it outside.

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Bonsai Barry

"Our talent lies in our choices."

Mcspeed

Google up growing wine grapes, they can be pretty picky about growing conditions. Unless you have gone pretty elaborate on the indoor habitat for it, you are probably not going to get great results indoors.

rockm

"which isn't a mallsai, was received as a gift which was ordered online, and even came with a pruning kit)."

It is another species of mallsai--Mailordersai--which is mallsai that comes via UPS.

"I've been giving it 16-18 hrs of flourescent light (using a timer). giving the leaves and the soil a good misting every day and a root bath once or twice a week. its entirely indoors, no real sunlight (but also no insects) and the temperature is pretty consistent and not too cold (i dont feel cold, and I'm usually pretty sensitive to AC thats too strong)"

This is your problem. You are keeping a plant that needs intense sunlight in a dark, cold room and are giving it way too much water. Grapes like warm areas with high sunlight, temperature variations from day to night--all temperate plants require lower nightime temps to complete the photosynthetic cycle. Without them, they get weak and die. You may be sensitive to air conditioning that's too cold, but you're not a grape plant You can bet IT is sensitive to the arid, cold air...This isn't a tropical plant. It can't tolerate being kept indoors under flourescent lighting.

You don't say where you are in the U.S., but right now, regardless of your location, the plant should be outside, in almost full sun...This is non-negotiable for the plant. Keep it indoors, it will be dead by Christmas...

Alasdair

Grapes grow best in warmer conditions: southern france, california, parts of australia. All places with a mild climate and plenty of sun during the day. You really need to get this tree outside.

Al

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I can feel another "I wish that was my tree" moment coming on...
Currently studying BSc Plant Biology at the Universty of Wales, Aberystwyth

rockm

"It is another species of mallsai--Mailordersai--which is mallsai that comes via UPS."

I re-read this after I posted. Sounds a little harsh. Isn't meant that way. To clarify--you may have similar "issues" as mallsai--bad soil, improper instructions, etc. Grape bonsai are mass marketed just as serissa, ficus and chinese elm are. All of these species root easily from cuttings, which makes them ideal fo such mass sales...

skayam

I'm in eastern pennsylvania, and I've got a sunporch I can put the bonsai out in, but... it can get pretty hot and humid during the day... can get to be sort of sauna like, but if i actually put it outside, it has a chance of getting scorched on the really hot days, and drenched in thunderstorms - weather isn't very consistent here

I was also hoping to be able to keep it at my desk so that i dont forget to take care of it and more likely to fuss over it, with it being 2 feet away from me throughout the workday. It also seems that the general bonsai advice is pretty different from the grapevine advice, so i'm a little confused over which one to follow.

until i figure out what kind of environment i should put it in, does anyone have pruning suggestions? do you think the tree would be healthier if i took off that one really long shoot? or probably no difference?

and regarding the quality of the bonsai, it looks decent to me, by whatever standards i've seen and read about... it looks like the pot its in can drain well, and the soil is aerated with chunks of clay(?), and it looked very healthy (green and growing) for the first 4-5 weeks that i had it.

gregb

I can't imagine keeping a grape bonsai indoors and expecting it to survive long-term. Site your tree to receive several hours of early morning sun and afternoon shade--that's it And let it have all the rain you can throw at it, while you're at it

You can feel good about keeping it healthy for as long as you did--it proves you'll be able to do even better once you follow the advice given by others and myself to take the plunge and venture outdoors with your bonsai. You'll never look back

And remember this...you can always bring it indoors for an evening to enjoy. Or a couple of days for a club show. The best of both worlds, I'd say.

rockm

"I was also hoping to be able to keep it at my desk so that i dont forget to take care of it and more likely to fuss over it, with it being 2 feet away from me throughout the workday."

You will kill it doing this. This is how the vast majority of first time bonsai are killed. Too much care.

Plants have withstood humidity, wind, sun and rain for about a billion years--they require it all.. Sunporch is too shaded. Find a place that gets Full sun in the morning. Shadier in the afternoon. Put the plant there and leave it.

You grape is a bonsai. Basic bonsai care applies. You're making this too complicated. Grape is not really a special case.