What's wrong with this pine or what am I doing wrong

Crowned_One

Ever since Monday August 6th this tree(Japanese Black Pine) has looked like this. At the same time we experienced high temps over 100 with heat indeces up to 110. Being that the tree is in such a small pot, and with hot winds during those days, I began watering a little in the morning and in the evening. No other JBP or any other tree has suffered like this one. This JBP I got at a workshop back in March that was taught by Steve Pilacek. I paid $100 for this workshop thus paid $100 for the tree and the pot. At the workshop I plucked alot of needles, pinched a few candles and wired it up. From March til the first week in June all I did was water and feed the tree. In that first week of June, after seeing alot of new growth, I plucked the rest of the larger needles that I had left on from the workshop. Again I pinched a few more candles that I did not want but also cut back 3 inches or so off the leader. Since that time all I have done is water and feed it. Still do even though it is looking the way it looks. A little more history on the tree: workshop was on Shohin and the tree is 7-9 yrs of age. I have been using Osmocote slow release pellets and/or Alaska Fish Emulsion 5-1-1 with once a month offering of 0-10-10 fertilizer.
If anyone needs more info I'll do my best to accomodate. I really would hate to lose this tree for many reasons. But if I do lose it, it will make me think hard on continuing this hobby.

About the pics. The one titled "under the canopy" is showing where I have been keeping this pine and other pines and other trees. The one titled "shohin jap black pine" is what it looked like back in June(it's the one on left if ya can see it well). The other 3 titled "jbp01", "jbp2" and "jbp3" shows what it looks like now.

Attached Images

	under the canopy.JPG (64.3 KB, 59 views)
	shohin jap black pine.JPG (56.0 KB, 72 views)
	jbp3.JPG (55.5 KB, 85 views)
	jbp2.JPG (45.5 KB, 48 views)
	jbp01.JPG (41.4 KB, 90 views)

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Selah_Tree

i dont know much about JBP but that looks like a pretty expensive stick to me. is this the average price for a JBP this size and a pot?

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Graydon

It's gone. There could be many reasons for it's demise. My assumption is that it was a combination of the heat and root removal, the tree could not take up food and water if the roots were severely reduced when it was repot. It didn't help that this type tree need full sun all the time - even if it is 105 degrees. It would also need much more water in that type heat. The other option could have been that by removing the needles left from the workshop leaving only forced buds you actually removed the mature needles that were keeping the tree alive and growing. They were also the needles that were using and transpiring the water taken up by the roots. The timing of the actions you were doing can be very complicated and confusing.

Contact Steve and ask why he think it passed. Considering the tree came from him he will know more about this tree than the rest of us. His email is on his web site here. Steve is good people and should give you some pertinent info.

Don't let this get you down about bonsai. Yes, you lost what amounts to $100 tree but in fact you lost less than that because the information and learning that day must be worth something... right? If I were to post photos of some nice trees I have killed you may pass out and hit your head... it's all a learning experience.

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Crowned_One

At the workshop, back in March, was the only time I pruned any of the roots. I didn't have to remove much to place it in the pot it is in now. Surely, during that time it should have grown new roots but I guess I wouldn't know for sure unless I pull it out of the pot. Should I have placed it where it would have received full sun? Under the magnolia tree it would get dappled sunlight most of the day with a good 2-3 hours of full sun in the late afternoon. When watering I can only water it in the morning and evening on the days I work. Work 10 hour days from 8am to 7pm. So yes it would go over 12 hours without water. On my days off I could have watered more but didn't want to over water. When I removed the rest of the older needles it was after the candles I kept had already needled out fully.
Yes, coming away with the experience with Steve and information is worth alot more. But this tree really meant alot to me in that it was my very first attempt since at that time I had only been learning for 1 month. Attended my first study group back in Feb. I had the most $#!+-eating grin the drive home. I was so proud of this tree that I showed everyone, even my co-workers(who know jack squat about trees let alone bonsai).
Since it is gone, I would still like to keep it as it is. Any suggestions on preserving it? I know I could just pitch it in the trash and use the pot for another tree but I want to keep it as a momento, a reminder. Thanks for the advice and I'll email Steve to get his opinion on the tree.

ps: Selah, the price of the tree and pot was actually less. The $100 covered all materials and Steve's advice and teaching at the workshop. Since I got to keep the tree and the pot I chose I just say the tree and pot cost me $100.

Vonsgardens

Looks like too much work at one time (transplant, wire, prune, needle work and candles- in one season this is too much, in my opinion). Sorry, but it does happen. typically we would root prune and do a partial soil change, prune back fast growing branches and leave until the following year.


Sorry for your loss, the $100 would be wel spent for the instruction and the hands on experience. Sometimes when teaching we havepeople do more than they should because we can get away with it (frequently) in our nurseries.

Hope the next one does better.

John

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bonsaikc

First off, I wouldn't let one setback keep me from something I love. You spent $100 learning some valuable lessons. So the question is, what did you really learn in the workshop, what did you learn through hard experience, and how will it change the way you do things? Pines scared me to death when I first got into this, and they are my favorite now, JBP in particular.

I don't know what information Steve shared in the workshop, but I am pretty sure that's not exactly what you did. Needle plucking should have been kept to a minimum in March unless light and air couldn't get in to the tree. March is also the wrong time to be "pinching" a pine regardless of its level of development. And continuing to fuss with the tree through this year is a common mistake but a deadly one in this case.

So here's the plan for the future: get more black pines, enough that you won't be tempted to do too much. Learn how they grow, what is needed to develop them. Learn to wire, learn to graft. Candle removal is one of the last things you need to worry about, mostly as an energy balancing practice that also produces shorter needles.

Pines do need full sun, or as close as you can get to it. Japanese black pines in particular also need large amounts of water, unless you have them planted in extremely poor soil. Fertilize very heavily in spring, less in summer (or not at all if its a developed tree you have candled) and in fall. Keep an eye out for spider mites etc. and let them grow until the proper time for different tasks. They will reward you with a beautiful dark green color and lots of growth.

Secondly, unless this was a special cultivar, I think $100 was a little excessive for a tree this size and in this state of development. My recommendation is a standard JBP that may be less costly but will make you feel more confident in caring for it.

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Chris Johnston
"She was a critic, and lots fo critics who aren't called to do what they write about grow jealous and mean and small in their disappointment." - Stephen King, Duma Key
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bwaynef

Is the general consensus then that this one is toast? Is there any chance that up-potting it to accommodate placement in full-sun (w/o drying out) would be of any benefit at all?

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bonsaikc

I don't think anything will save this one.

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Chris Johnston
"She was a critic, and lots fo critics who aren't called to do what they write about grow jealous and mean and small in their disappointment." - Stephen King, Duma Key
Sashi-no-eda.blogspot.com