HELP! My Ponderosa is dieing or is it just being ornery

Graydon

Tom - I came to the realization a long time ago every tree I get begins the march to death. It now becomes a matter of how long I can make them comfortable while they are here... so you sir are in great company.

__________________

Advertisement

tachigi

Hi Greg,
If I hadn't done the styling I would have thought the same. The rebar, which was the closest stabile thing at hand during the styling. Was used more as a prop instead of using guy wires. I guess what I'm saying is we didn't really crank down on the tree The tree, health wise, in my opinion was OK. Nice green needles and lots of sap.

Now saying all this being agressive during styling can be a relative term

__________________
Tom

Shady Side Bonsai
Bonsai Vault
4MAAT

tachigi

Tree #1 Collected 2003/04. Not styled when acquired. Initial styling done last year. No root work has yet to be repotted. Lots of new growth.

Tree #2 No idea when collected. Some very poor styling had been done prior to my purchase, I think this was a consignment. Restyled last year in a Walter Pall workshop. Had been repotted previously to my acquisition. No repot to date. Good new growth

Tree #3 Best guess on collection was 2004, possibly even earlier than that. Had been languishing in the nursery. It was a good price at $85 so we acquired. At time of acquisition needles were yellowish, possibly needle cast treated with copper and rectified problem. No styling prior to purchase. Initial styling last year. I assume its been repotted prior to us at least once. I state this because as to the best of my knowledge Ponderosa do not grow in turface in the wild No repot to date. Growth? Nada, Nope, Zilch....see above at original post. You can see a time line on this tree at Bnut in my album.

OK Dick Tracy solve the mystery

__________________
Tom

Shady Side Bonsai
Bonsai Vault
4MAAT

JGamby713

Hey Tom,

Tree #1 I think is not one of ours..... although we do use the Anderson Flats quite abit. But I know Hitoshi drives across the US on his trips so he could have got this one anywhere.
Tree #2 is one of ours. It was styled in a workshop with Walter, although Walter really had no input on it. It was brought to the workshop and given a rough first styling at the end of the day to fill time. Not sure who worked on it at the workshop. I do remember this tree though and Hitoshi buying it.
Tree #3 is not ours. We don't use that type of container or soil. As for why it is not doing anything I would say it was collected with very little root and then worked on too soon. Typically you don't touch a ponderosa until you have had one good growing season at least. Don't worry about needle color and don't throw it away. I have seen trees like this bounce back after a year or so, so as long as it is flowing with sap and the bud you broke off is green inside then it has a good chance. Why were the needles cut back If you didn't do that then I would say it is an Andy tree. That could also be part of its turn for the worse. With those cut back on a tree that is on the edge you have opened up several little wounds for the tree to heal robbing energy from root production or bud development.
I bet if you pulled this out of the pot it is in and slipped it into another pot you wouldn't find much root growth or exsisting roots. Just my thought based off the picture and apperance of the tree.

Don't give up on it, don't baby it just take care of it like normal and I think there is a fair chance it could bounce back next spring.

If you have anymore details that may help let me know.

See Ya and good luck!! Jason

__________________
Jason's Bonsai Fun!
www.oregonbonsai.com
USDA Zone 8, NW Oregon

Mcspeed

Tom if you have Bonsai from the Wild look at the Ponderosa section, I think Nick goes into some of these issues, I will go thru it tonight when I get home and post back what I find.

__________________
If at first you don't succeed -- skydiving is not for you.


Always remember that you're unique -- just like everyone else

Enjoy this day.
Bill

tachigi

Thanks Jason .... good memory and info. I keep my ponderosa in full sun through out the year. I'll assume that I should keep doing the same with #3.

To answer a question on the needles ..... they were cut back in a critique by a well known artist .....live and learn

Thanks again Jason

__________________
Tom

Shady Side Bonsai
Bonsai Vault
4MAAT

rlist

Hey Tom. Ok - time for my input. I would actually guess that #1 was collected by Randy because it is a good tree and in a flat. Nothing more than a hunch. Number two was owned by Randy and styled by... Me. Oh, what a small world this is! This was durning a Walter workshop (on this day: http://internetbonsaiclub.org/index...3&topic=19286.0 ). I worked on my tree, assisted Jason on his tree, mulled around and then Randy pulled out YOUR tree. We discussed it, I gave it the first styling, and he, Walter & I adjusted it to the state it was in (assuming Hitoshi did not muck with it) when you got it. You must remember that it was a first styling - so don't judge me too harshly!

Tree #3 - I agree with Jason in that I think there is a combo of poor roots, drying out, sunburn & a styling. Oh, and a needle cutting. My take is to baby it - despite what Da King says. I would make sure the substrate always stays moist but not wet, and that it gets good morning sun but no afternoon sun. A bright, warm but not hot greenhouse would be great. I think that you are on an up-hill battle, and if you pray to the bonsai gods you might pull this one through. Don't get too attached, as I have lost one in a similar state.

Off to go backpacking and then collecting for the weekend. So, if you (or anyone else) wish to rib me for the substandard initial styling, you must wait a couple of days for my retort.

__________________
NW Oregon, Zone 8a
Check out my new blog here...
Both gold and muck come out of the same shaft...

tachigi

<uncomfortable silence>

Mmmmmm ,where is the emoticon that shows a foot in the mouth. Tis a small world ..... so when was #2 collected?

Have just the place to put this tree as you described. As far as attached goes? I'll think of it as a red headed stepchild.

BTW way thanks for the link .... good stuff there. The picture of Greg B and that western white pine is priceless. Greg looks like he just got a date with prom queen and is raring to go.

__________________
Tom

Shady Side Bonsai
Bonsai Vault
4MAAT

rlist

Tom-

No harm, no foul my good man! I would guess styled in June '06 so collected in spring '05 or fall '04 - maybe earlier. Randy tends to keep things around and style later, rather than sooner.

As for Greg, he is a great guy and I think he was smitten by Walter's visit - but I can say we all were the first time around. By the by, for those of you out there keeping score, Greg is standing next to a pinion pine he collected in Az a few moons ago.

Off to the mountains. Y'all be safe and sane this holiday weekend...

__________________
NW Oregon, Zone 8a
Check out my new blog here...
Both gold and muck come out of the same shaft...