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HELP! My Ponderosa is dieing or is it just being ornery

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Old 23-May-2007   #1
tachigi
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HELP! My Ponderosa is dieing or is it just being ornery
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlist
Well then I say it is time for a new thread. If you have pictures at time of purchase, incrimentally and now, and discribe what you did to the roots and the substrate, I am sure Da King and I can bang heads together long enough to give you a benchmark.

As John mentioned many people have had issues previous issues with keeping Ponderosa alive. East coast people had trees die over 4-6 years. Dale has issues with trees dropping limbs over the first 3 years. Now John mentions issues in the south. (note, these are some bad results - but I am sure there are countless positive results out there that contridict this) In discussions with various people in the know - I think it relates to handling of the tree post collection and what is done with native soil/substrate. Removing as much as possible in as short of period of time as possible (i.e. over the first 2-3 years following collection) and getting them into an ideal substrate is key to long term health and survival.

So, if you went in and removed a majority of this native soil and put them into a good mix, then I see no reason why they won't thrive in your climate. In nature they are truly a hardy tree - that with good care over the long term I think we will see that we must treat them somewhat JBP to actually keep them in check.


OK Rich here is the new thread, which was suggested from the thread To ponder a ponderosa

I'll start since I have issues . I'm listing 3 of my 4 Ponderosas that I have had for a while now all 3 were purchased at a large New England Bonsai Nursery. Two are chugging away, alas the third is not looking good. To be perfectly frank I'm a bit stumped. Am I falling into the east coast ponderosa syndrome or is my tree committing suicide due to it's longing for the west coast. I know Hec, trees don't commit suicide . I have posted pictures of the three trees, the foliage, and soil. Other external influences was a warm winter and then a drastic change to cold for a short period late. Also we moved to our new location and they were disturbed quite a bit .
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Don't flay yourself mentally when you make a mistake or when something bad happens. Just pick yourself up from the god-awful mess you’ve made, say to yourself "I must make a note not to do that again." and go on to the next step, of the hundred or so that remain.
Last edited by tachigi : 23-May-2007 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 23-May-2007   #2
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Tree #1

Oldest resident of the ponderosas. Buds have broke and seems to be happy. Soil is a grainy sand and loam compostion and is what the tree came in.
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File Type: jpg jsw_p1060048.jpg (46.8 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg jsw_p1060049.jpg (51.4 KB, 41 views)
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Don't flay yourself mentally when you make a mistake or when something bad happens. Just pick yourself up from the god-awful mess you’ve made, say to yourself "I must make a note not to do that again." and go on to the next step, of the hundred or so that remain.
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Old 23-May-2007   #3
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Tree #2

Second oldest resident. Buds once again have popped and it is picking up vigour. Soil mainly comprised of grit.
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File Type: jpg jsw_p1060045.jpg (45.0 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg jsw_p1060046.jpg (48.0 KB, 25 views)
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Don't flay yourself mentally when you make a mistake or when something bad happens. Just pick yourself up from the god-awful mess you’ve made, say to yourself "I must make a note not to do that again." and go on to the next step, of the hundred or so that remain.
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Old 23-May-2007   #4
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Tree #3
This is the misbehaving subject. Buds are showing but dark and not swelling. A sample test shows that the bud is green on its interior and sap is evident. A bark scrap also shows green cambium and is wet. Needles are .... well ugly and yellowed. The brownish tips I attribute to needle pruning. Soil is appears to be a turface and haydite mix. This was the soil the tree came with. The odds makers here at Shady Side say taps is in the offing.

OK is this a one shot deal or is this the east coast ponderosa syndrome? Any takers?
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Don't flay yourself mentally when you make a mistake or when something bad happens. Just pick yourself up from the god-awful mess you’ve made, say to yourself "I must make a note not to do that again." and go on to the next step, of the hundred or so that remain.
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Old 23-May-2007   #5
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The margin between the brown and green portions of the needles, yellow band or black band? Are there any very tiny (microscopic) black round spots on the brown area?

Could it be needlecast fungi?
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Old 23-May-2007   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDirt
The margin between the brown and green portions of the needles, yellow band or black band? Are there any very tiny (microscopic) black round spots on the brown area?

Could it be needlecast fungi?


Hi Doc,

To call any part of the needle green is a stretch. Possibly near the base is what some might call green. The transition from brown to yellow to green is subtle and even. So no banding is evident and no spots as you describe. There are some dark smudge like marks on about 10% of the needles. The marks are permanent and don't smear.

I kind of doubt its needle cast. I'm a strong believer in copper sulfate. I have quite a few pines and that would be devastating if they were all to be infected. So copper is a regiment that I adhere to every spring and fall.

I appreciate your input Doc wish it were some thing as simple as needle cast.
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Don't flay yourself mentally when you make a mistake or when something bad happens. Just pick yourself up from the god-awful mess you’ve made, say to yourself "I must make a note not to do that again." and go on to the next step, of the hundred or so that remain.
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Old 23-May-2007   #7
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Thanks for starting the new thread Tom, again sorry about jacking the other. I don't feel qualified to post and answer on yours but clearly the third is less better than the first two.

I'll dig around and see if I was smart enough to photos my two little ones when they came in from Andy. I don't think I did but I do have photos that Andy emailed me. I know I didn't shoot the repotting, kind of hard to do when you are working solo. I will shoot some later today and post when I can.

I need to hope I can have success and with roots growing thru the colander in less than a month after potting it must be a good sign. The reality is I may believe in the east cost (or deep south) syndrome and can do nothing to prevent it.
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Old 23-May-2007   #8
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Quote:
Thanks for starting the new thread Tom, again sorry about jacking the other


Graydon, I've been thinking for the last week about starting this thread as I have been a bit perplexed about my ponderosa. I guess I didn't want to have a thread that insinuated that my tree is dieing ....Arrrghhh! It might show the soft under belly of a bonsaist You and Rich gave good reason to start this thread.

Speaking of Rich ...........
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Don't flay yourself mentally when you make a mistake or when something bad happens. Just pick yourself up from the god-awful mess you’ve made, say to yourself "I must make a note not to do that again." and go on to the next step, of the hundred or so that remain.
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Old 23-May-2007   #9
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Just an observation on my part but the re-bar suggests some rather aggressive positioning/styling on the weak tree (not suggesting you styled it when it was weak, but it became weak because of the styling) The other two trees may have been worked a bit more gently? Just a guess
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Old 24-May-2007   #10
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Glad you started the thread. Can you answer for trees 1, 2, & 3: When the trees were collected (your guess), when you got them, were they styled when you got them or when did you style them, have you done any root work as of yet, and has there been any growth since you got them.

I can make some guesses as to the above - and I think that I will be pretty spot on. So, let's get the info and go from there. That said, I think we will discover the issue with the sick ponderosa is due to a combination of a lack of roots, being sunburned & too dry, and going through a styling too soon. Jason will say it is simply because the roots touched turface and recoiled in horror...
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