Chinese Juniper - possibly sick/dying

jersanct

This is my big Chinese Juniper from this thread:

http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/f15/jun...ping-18600.html

As I mentioned in that thread, I'm becoming worried about it. I am hoping these photos may elicit some responses.

A few notes that may help you in your diagnosis:
1) The tree had maybe half of its roots removed about 6 weeks ago, before which it had been planted in a big nursery pot in heavy, clay-like soil. I did not bare root entirely, so a portion of the remaining root ball is still in poor soil. My advisors at the local bonsai nursery did not think I should risk a full bare-root repot.
2) The tree has been kept in a position that could be classified as part-sun or possibly even part-shade since repotting.
3) After 4-5 weeks, I fertilized it for the first time. The browning of tips had already begun by that time.
4) I can not be entirely certain if I have been over- or under-watering, because I can not reach down to test the soil at the moment. Also, the part of the roots in bonsai soil are in a fairly open mix which probably does not hold water well, and the roots in the older soil are probably holding on to water much longer.

If I can answer any other questions for people trying to help, please fire away.

Also, if a) I should immediately take this to someone with more expertise than me, in the hopes of saving it, or if b) This is perfectly normal behavior for this tree after a major(ish) repotting, please say so. If I had any pride, I would swallow it in order to be sure that I did not lose this tree.

Thanks,

Chris

Attached Images

	bt01.JPG (60.6 KB, 36 views)
	bt02.JPG (63.2 KB, 30 views)
	bt03.JPG (67.2 KB, 31 views)
	bt04.JPG (54.3 KB, 18 views)
	bt06.JPG (55.3 KB, 33 views)
	bt05.JPG (63.6 KB, 41 views)

Advertisement

jersanct

A few more photos.

Attached Images

	bt08.JPG (63.0 KB, 21 views)
	bt09.JPG (54.1 KB, 19 views)
	bt07.JPG (67.7 KB, 27 views)

SiNguyen

Hi Jersanct, I have a couple of questions:
1. When was it collected or dug up from the ground?
2. When was its root last chopped before you repotted it?
3. What did you use in your soil mix?
4. How do you know that you removed only half of the rootage if you left the other half of the root ball in the old clay dirt? (There might not be any root in that old dirt ball in the beginning).
5. How much did you fertilize it?
These questions might help you decide on what to do next.

To me, you have 2 options:
1. Do nothing more. Just put in shade, water very little, and do not fertilize any more for a long time. Just wait and see.

2. Do everything now. Defoliate, remove all soil, wash and prune roots to clean healthy edges, place in airy 100% inorganic mix like pumice, use rooting hormone or Willow water, add mycorrhiza, mist tree, and do not fertilize for at least a year or more. This is what I would do. Your chances are 50/50 I think.

If you had used a commercial potting mix (like from Homedepot or garden centers) or if you had fertilized it too strongly, then you should remove the soil now (Option #2). The commercial potting mix frequently have added manure for fertilizer. New roots can't take too much nitrogen. Leaving your tree in this soil will just kill it slowly. Most of the roots would be dead by now anyway, so repotting it won't do any more harm. If your tree is already in a very loose well-drained soil mix, then you could possibly soak and wash the fertilizer out of the root ball, but you don't seem to have that.

One possibility is that you might have effectively removed most or all of the good roots when you repotted it six weeks ago. Eventhough you had left some of the old clay dirt attached, this old portion might not have any small feeder roots in it. It still might recover if this is the case, but you will have to reduce foliage to match root strength.

Another possibility, and a very likely one, is that the tree was dying all along, ever since it was first dug up (if this was recent and if they did not potted it up correctly). These junipers can take a long time to look dead, up to a year even. Even when it was pushing out the last few buds, it was on its last sap of energy. People who collects alot of junipers from the wild can vouch for this.

If only the old foliage was turning brown, and not this year's new growth, then the tree would probably be OK, then you don't have to do anything more (option 1).

When the foliage looks like what you have, then the roots must be damaged (ie. overwatered, root fungus, root rot, too much fertilizer, too much roots removed, etc). You just have to decide how bad the roots are and how much you have to do to correct it.

You only need one or two live branch on this tree to style it anyway. So don't worry too much about how it will look, as long it is still alive somewhere. Good luck!
Si

jersanct

Hello Si, thanks for your help.



1) According to the nursery that sold it to me, they dug it up from their own landscaping in January 2006. When I repotted, I found that it still had a burlap sack rotting around the root ball, so it probably had been living in the burlap sack while it was in their landscaping.

2) I can not vouch for when the roots were last chopped, but the burlap sack makes me think that the nursery did not disturb the roots much, if at all, when they dug it up in January ’06.

3) The soil mix is my local bonsai nursery’s proprietary (i.e. they won’t say exactly what’s in it) mix, but it’s mostly inorganic material, with some pine bark, as far as I can tell. Not sure if the rock is pumice, but it’s a very coarse, gravelly mix.

4) I removed about half of the root ball, from what I could see of it. I can’t guarantee that there are roots in the central area I didn’t bare-root, but I bare-rooted probably half of what remained (does that make sense?) after I took off the outer half, and the roots emerging from the old soil certainly gave the appearance of a decent root system within the old soil.

5) I have not fertilized much. One fertilization using 4 small pellets of an organic bonsai fertilizer, about a 3-5-5 mix, not terribly heavy in Nitrogen. Sorry I can’t give better detail than this, but I’m laid up right now, and even if I could get to the package, most of it is written in Japanese. The letters OOF stand out in my memory…somewhere on there it said “Odorless Organic Fertilizer.” I doubt that will pinpoint anything for you. The good news is that the pellets have not broken down completely, and I can pluck them out, if that is your advice, and try to wash out any residual fertilizer left in the pot.



I do not think the new soil should be a problem, although the old portion of the soil might be, and I will say I repotted this under the supervision of members of my bonsai nursery and local society, most or all of whom should have known what they were doing. I will take your word for it that the tree could have been dying all along, but it was looking very healthy prior to repotting.



If you think these pictures point to root damage, with the likely culprits being overwatering and overfertilization, I think I will lean for now toward cutting back on the watering, keeping away from fertilizer, and leaving it in the shade. I say this only because I think I am still following your advice, but I am happy to hear any further impressions you and others may have.



I should also say that I will be in no position to follow advice #2 above for at least another month, by which point it will be 90-100 degrees here, so that option does not look viable for me. If you really think the tree is in trouble, though, and if you think #2 is an absolute necessity after my answers to your follow-up questions, please say so, and I can make arrangements to get the tree to my local nursery for their help in saving the tree. Sooner rather than later, if that's what you think needs to be done.



Si, I had thought that just keeping the tree alive at all will be good enough here, since the general consensus is that all of the current branches are useless, anyway, so that’s one encouragement. Thanks very much.

SiNguyen

Hi Jersanct, ok, let's wait and see for some more ideas since you've got plenty of down time anyway. But for now, I would remove the fertilizer pellets. See John Naka's book, in the section about stressed trees, he recommended no fertilizer. This fertilizer pellet is not the culprit but it is not helping. If there were some fertilizers like slow release granules osmocote or nutricote aready in your bonsai soil mix, then yours can worsen it.

If the tree was healthy before, then the foliage damage can be traced back to around the time you repotted it. It's takes that long for the root damage to show up on the foliage. Overwatering is never the cause if your soil is very well drained . I use 100% pumice and I water my newly collected trees 2 or 3 times a aday even (if I collected it in the summer). If yoursoil mix have added peat moss or compost, then it could hold water for a lot longer, even when it looks well drained. So overwatering still could be a cause in your case, so look at your soil mix carefully.

Since you can't move the tree, get somebody to come by and see your tree and feel and smell your soil there. Hopefully, they will get a complete picture of the situation and give better advice.

It will be too late for this tree to have an emergency transplant in one month. But in general, it is ok to collect trees in the middle of summer. The summer's heat never stopped me from collecting trees. Depending on the health of the tree, If it is very healthy, then summer can be the best time to collect it.

Are all of the foliage, old and new, turning brown? If the new growth tips are still green and firm, then you might be ok.

Keeping newly collected trees in burlap is a good idea. That is a tried and true method when bare rooting trees.

Anyway, good luck again,
Si

jersanct

Thank you. Using what you have been telling me as clues, I think it is likely that I have been overwatering because the older soil (it's not quite clay, but it's very heavy) that I left in the center of the root ball when repotting is holding more water than I realized, because I am unable at the moment to reach down and feel the soil. The bonsai soil I added during the repotting should not be a problem; I know from experience that it dries very quickly, and that's part of the reason I have been unwittingly overwatering this tree.

It would seem that I still have two options, as you have suggested: 1) Leave the tree in the shade, remove the fertilizer, and see if I can convince my wife to water the tree for me only when she can feel that the older soil in the center of the pot is nearly dry; 2) Repot again now and completely bare root this time, removing all of the old, heavy soil, and removing any damaged roots. I can't do this myself for another month, but I think I could convince a friend of mine to help me out. Maybe. If you think #2 is a necessity to save this tree, the tree's potential is certainly worth putting a friend or two to some inconvenience, right?

Thanks for your help--I value your opinion.

Vance Wood

I am going to assume that the answer to my next question is yes. Is there any evidence of new growth anywhere on the tree? If so I don't think I would fool around with the tree any more. Junipers have a tendency to abandon some of the top growth after having the root system severely disturbed. According to Kimura this is a good sign, it means that the tree is active and trying to balance itself out. It is when they do nothing but turn brown that you have a problem. Incidentally that new growth is likely to pop out on the trunk near branch junctions, and crotches between branches. It is also likely to be juvenile in nature looking like procumbens Juniper.

__________________
The only finished bonsai is a dead one; me 1992 MABA Des Moines Iowa

jersanct

Hello Vance, and thank you for your note.

There are plenty of signs of new growth, and, in fact, some of it is juvenile in nature, as you have suggested. You can see some of it in my photos - any of the juvenile foliage you see is new, since repotting. My worry was that much/most of the new growth was browning.

It sounds like you are suggesting I should not repot again, but being more careful about overwatering and easing up on the fertilizer would be a good idea for now? Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong on any of that. Thanks very much for your help.

jersanct

I'm slightly less worried about this tree now - thanks to Si and to Vance for your help. Some of the most recent new growth is seeming to stay healthy, for a few days now, at least. That's very little evidence, I know, but let me be happy for a few days, all right?

I think Si correctly pegged overwatering as the primary problem, and I had the most problems with browning off a few days after a couple days of heavy rain. The rain, combined with my systematic overwatering of a tree still partially in a heavy soil, was the problem. I'm hoping the rest was as Vance suggested -- only a tree balancing out its foliage with the root work.

I will continue to be very careful about watering, and I will keep it in the shade, and I hopefully will report continued positive results in a few weeks' time. Thanks to everyone for your advice.