Mike,

I appreciate your reply, but I hope you can return with a more concise version.

At the upper "levels" of bonsai, I can somewhat follow your philosophy, but I have to wonder:

Are you pursuing your life the way you pursue bonsai ,or do you pursue bonsai the way you pursue your life?

To me bonsai is a part of my life, but without bonsai my life would go on. Therefore bonsai is secondary, no matter how much I enjoy it. The two cannot be reversed, because without life there is no bonsai. I have respect for your remarks, but I have to believe that good, even great, bonsai is made by those who have other interests in life. To dwell completely and utterly on bonsai is not possible for me. I can, however, try to understand how others believe it can be done, even if I don't agree.

Thanks for your time,

John

[QUOTE=rockm]John,

Do I HAVE to be kitten? The only good kitten is a bonsaied kitten
[/QUOT

Okay rock, you can be something else since the urban legend of bonsai kittens has been proven to be true.
As always, thanks for your good humor. I always enjoy it.

John

John, to illustrate further, I also tell people; "Stamp collecting is a hobby, because you can put it away and ignore it for as long as you want, and it will still be there when you take it out". Bonsai, much like animal husbandry, requires daily attention. When you go away for any period of more than 2 days or so, arrangements must be made for someone to come in and water.
A serious commitment must be in place for there to be any success.

Mike

Will,

Thanks for the insight. I'm glad you see it that way. I don't want to think that bonsai requires ALL your time. Prioritize. I'm sure a lot of people think, "yeah John, if my kid has a broken arm I'll take them to the emergency room BEFORE I water my bonsai", but I'm telling you, I have seen people do some very stupid things.

True story:

In the Army, at the apartments where my wife and I lived, we had a neighbor/friend with an infant son. They didn't have any money for diapers, and my wife and I scraped, and I mean scraped, together $10 for them to get some diapers. We gave it to the husband, and he and another guy drove off to the store. About an hour later, he returned with no diapers and high off the joint he had just smoked. He had used the $10 we had given that family for diapers to use for his own selfish reasons. To this day, I can't believe he did it, but he did. We ended up going ourselves to get the child some diapers with change we had dug up from the couch and car seats. Just enough to do it. That was a LOT of money to someone as poor as I was at the time.

Over time, it has proven to be a priceless lesson learned at the cost of $10. I will not ever let something of material value RULE my life. No matter how much I enjoy it, bonsai will not take priority over everything else.

Thanks for the response,

John

Interesting John. It sounds like we do a lot of the same things (the family still laughs cause whenever we go anywhere where there is a nursery I'm wandering the aisles looking for potential bonsai). At a meeting in Canada a few years ago I was chatting with our company's General Manager for Canada at dinner. He asked what I did in my spare time after work and family. I said I did bonsai and had my motorcycle. He commented about how far apart those activities where. My reasoning is bonsai is my relaxing, peace, horticulture and artistic time. My motorcycle is my work out the frustrations (wrenching & riding), thrill time and a different relaxation. We talked about the importance of balance and not being totally immersed in one interest.

I'm not saying bonsai isn't a big part of my life, but it's not my entire life. I've also found it interesting how sometimes it's hard to get to know people in bonsai, because they don't want to talk about life outside of little trees.

Bill

Mke,

Thanks for the expansion. Yes, I agree it deserves a commitment. My problem is when that commitment becomes an all-out obsession. That is when it becomes dangerously close to ruling your life. I'm not implying that towards you, just trying to show a line I feel should not be crossed.


Thanks again,

John

I am trying to live a balanced life, with room for family, friends, sports, recreation, learning, and work.

"The bonsai in me" always tries to take more time at the expense of the rest, but I don't allow it. I find that I enjoy bonsai the most when the other areas in my life get their fair share. So, I consciously empty my mind of any bonsai matter for a great part of a given day. Then, I return to it with anticipation and full of enthusiasm. My best explanation is that balance and moderation is the key to enjoy everything to the fullest. I would hate the day when bonsai became a compulsive activity. To me that's the death of creativity and mental sanity.

Yesterday I went to the yearly show of Descanso Bonsai Society. I was just about to buy an ivy with a spectacular, 7" nebari, when someone who looked like a novice interrupted me for advice. I turned away from my tree for about 3 minutes, and when I turned back again, the tree was gone. I was slightly furious, since it should have been obvious that when I am handling a tree for examination, one shouldn't just snatch it while I turn my back at it for a minute. It was clear that I took it from its place and put it next to me for a reason.
Anyway, it turned out that a gentleman who bought it was the president of another bonsai society in the Los Angeles area. When I walked up to him and explained what happened, he told me off with a "tough luck buddy". I was in a mixture of shock and anger, and realized that this is how it looks when bonsai takes over your life (not mine, but the other gentleman's). You lose your sense of decency and fairness, greed and selfishness takes over. Everything goes, "for the higher purpose" of the art. The goal justifies the means.

At that moment I felt that bonsai meant nothing to me, compared with the values I was brought up with. And I didn't even want to be associated with these maniacs.

Just when I was about to leave the show, he ran after me and said, "you know what, have another look at the ivy and if you still want it, I will sell it to you for the same price". It was a close call, but the world turned back to normal again.

At the end, I passed on the tree and left it to him. And that was a blessing, because shortly after, they rolled out a 400 year old (estimated of course) california juniper with a trunk that I would only dream on having. I was the first who saw it and two minutes later it was in my car. I couldn't believe my luck: it cost me $50, the seller was a sick man who couldn't take care of it anymore and was virtually giving away this world-class material.

The moral: when bonsai takes over your life, there is a great danger of losing touch with the rest of us humans. It's a lonely place. What's the point?

Bill,

Thank you for that wonderful post. "Because they don't want to talk about life outside of little trees" sums up my exact purpose for starting this thread. Here we are on a site dedicated for bonsai enthusiasts, but we can find so much more enjoyment if we get to learn about the people and not just the trees.

I look forward to reading more posts from you,

John

Attila,

I knew I could depend on you to say it with an almost poetic style. Wonderfully stated, and easily understood.

Humbly,

John

I wish I was more like Attila.

I'm afraid I use bonsai like I've used other things in the past to escape. Sometimes, my life IS out of balance.

When I'm feeling restless and unchallenged at work, I'll lurk here. When I'm frustrated, I'll surf the galleries or I'll go outside and pick little pests and brown leaves off of my trees.

When I'm feeling really deprived, I'll drive an hour to a nursery and load up on neglected landscaping trees "with potential." If I was more cashy, I'd have alot more to show for it, but all of my stuff comes under the heading of ghetto bonsai.

I've gotten better. My spouse isn't as jittery as he used to be about my trips out of town, and his eyes don't roll to the back of his head as often when the subject of trees comes up, or I have a monthly meeting to get to.

I've actually missed a couple of meetings because other really pressing priorities have taken precedence. And I have gotten a little bit of work done in the past few months, so I guess all is not lost.

To find out if you have a problem, you can answer the following questions;

1. Has your involvement with bonsai negatively affected your close relationships?

2. Has your involvement with bonsai ever caused you to miss work or other important engagements?

3. Have you ever spent money on bonsai you didn't have to spend?

4. Has anyone ever told you that your bonsai activities is out of control?

5. Have you ever tried to stop doing bonsai for more than a few days and found it impossible?

6. Have you ever worried that your involvement with bonsai is out of control?