I throw out to all the following,

You are getting known, or have been for many years, as a Person of Knowledge on Bonsai. You even have some trees in states of development that you would sell. Your not actually selling stuff, but time and collecting has given you much more than you want.

Someone contacts you and comes by for some help. They just started out and have this 'wonderful' tree they got online! They only paid $150.00 plus a shipping charge. They ask advise and you gladly give. They notice you have many trees and you say how you wish you could 'thin the group'. They point to one or two they have interst in.

Now the question..... Do you value your trees based on the $150.00 tree your guest has brought you, even though it is not worth 1/3 that amount? Do you Tell this person, "I know you spent $150.00 on your tree but that may not be a good 'value', mine, which you like much more are not really developed and are a bit better than yours. I can only charge you $100 each?

This little exercise has some givens....One yes, we are not takeing into account the time by me or the online seller to develop the tree to this point. We are assuming that the $150.00 online tree is one of the way overpriced trees we all see an make fun of! And I'm sure I'm forgetting something.... but lets see if anyone will go with this

This is what I have done in the past when I want to sell one of my trees. I usually only sell to people I know and especially people in my bonsai club. When I sell them the tree I work out what I payed for the pot, the tree(if at all), wire and some of my time. On most occasions the tree that I am selling is because I won't to get rid of it because I no longer wish to have it, spend time on it, work on it. I would usually sell a tree for the cost price plus about 20%. This 20% covers wire and time I spent on the tree. So the members get some very cheap bonsai. They are happy and I am happy. I also get to see the tree again and again and see what they have done to it in terms of styling and so on.

So I guess if I was in your shoes I would be honest. If they were your friend then they should understand. You can explain why you are only charging a lower price for your trees. This will hopefully educate them as well. Also you could explain that they are your friend and only want the cost price of your tree. I guess this will soften the blow that they were over charged.

But if this person is someone you don't known then you can explain that you have no overheads and stuff like that you have to pay and so can sell your trees cheaply.

That is my opinion.

Hi Jay,

In principle:
I ignore what they paid previously and sell at a price that "I" believe to be right for my stuff. This could be an education for them on several levels.

In practice:
I don't sell any trees to anyone who does not seem to have the knowledge and experience to be able to take care of them. If they seem to be rank beginners, I direct them to reliable sources in their area and offer some tips, including the contact info for their local club.

I don't hold with the idea that these trees (my trees) are just "my" trees. I believe that they're living things that have a future far beyond what I am capable of offering them. I'm just the current caretaker. So, I'd never sell a tree to someone who did not indicate that they could obviously take care of it. I'm not a tree vendor and can afford these scruples. ;-)

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas

Andy
That is a fantastic attitude to take. That is why I am choosy about who buys my trees. I would hate to know that as soon as someone bought one of my trees they were off the next day trying to sell it somewhere else for double the price. Trust me this happens a lot down here and is very disheartening.

David

Hey, this is a really good topic, I have this idea of having a bonsai nursery when retired, (A really long term plan), Obviously, I enjoy bonsai now, and believe will ever do, so when coming down to sell the valuable trees you might have, I believe you have to consider the future when selling the tree... So, I always thought about installing some classes for the people who bought a tree on my nursery, to be sure that they will take care of the bonsai, at least, keep it alive and happy, then some intermediate classes, and if I'm ever able to do so, some advanced classes to propagate the hobby here in Guatemala...

Now, answering to the thread topic, I believe that I would set a minimum price as David said, and of course, if you can get a little more for a tree... mmm... well, the price depends on the costumer... I would charge the just price, and get the best I can... you know negotiate your own price to give the best to the costumer getting the best at the same time... I don't mean to OVERCHARGE the price, so if you consider $100 just, I would go for it...

Did you get my point?

I can tell you that from a growers stand point I have a higher value for what I create than most of my central California collecters. A person who only values a tree at $8.00 will have little desire to keep that tree alive. I will make one more point, if something does not belong to you why do you think that you can set the value of that material? If you want something badly enough, pay the price and go home happy. If you can't pay the price, go home happy. This is the last thing that I am going to say. If you see some material priced at $100.00 and you think that it is too expensive, go home and grow me 10 plants of equal stature and structure and then tell me if that material was over priced.

Glenn

Point 1. What does the price of material have to do with the desire to keep it alive? Just because one pays less for a tree, do you really think they think less about it? Some of my best trees were had for under twenty dollars, I don't think any less of them than the elm grove I have almost 800.00 dollars in.

Point 2. Jay asked our opinion of how we would determine the price of our own material, we responded.

Point 3. You are on the wrong thread to even be talking about my 8.00 bid anyway.

Point 4. First you have to grow material that someone would be willing to give you a hundred dollars for in the first place. You have not posted any of these plants yet.

Point 5. If you keep challanging everyone to grow stuff just to prove your point, what will you do with those 3 1/2 acres of plants your growing?

Point 6. Some people desire to purchase plants from a grower such as yourself. People will always be looking for a deal, why beat a dead horse. People will pay what you ask if they think they are getting their monies worth.

Point 7. The big money is in tastefully done finished bonsai. The money is not in the growing. You can't compare trees in the ground to what Brussel's bonsai is selling trees for. Your time is worth nothing. That is why I do not sell many stands. I am not an assembly line, I don't have 20 guys working for .50 a day. I may sell on ebay and cut out the middle man, and could make a buck, but there is a lot of time involved to do this. To do this on a scale such as you guys have would require much more man power than you have.

Point 8. The only way you will ever settle this is to just put this stuff up for sale. What are you waiting for anyways. You gonna sell it or cultivate it for another five years. Every year its in the ground, your losing money that you will never get back. The longer you keep it without working on the top, the less chance you have in selling it.

I own a small business and my own values have always been to sell my products for a fair price even when I could, at times, easily get more. On rare occasions I am even offered more, but I won't take it. I believe that honesty and fairness are basic values those should be honored. I also believes that what goes around comes around...if we unfairly jack up a price because someone doesn't know the difference, then in the end, we will pay the price.

That said, I also would emphasize the word "fair" above. I suspect that many of us undervalue our product and discount our own worth and our own labor. If you have groomed your trees the way you say you have, they are probably worth more than a $100.

Value is not based on cost! In my copy shop, I buy a piece of paper for .025 cents. When you add the cost of machines, overhead, labor, etc., it comes to about 3 cents a copy. I sell the copy for 7 cents. I believe the good service, good empoyees, good location deserves over a 100% markup.

Bottom line, if you are honest in adding your value, time, and expenses and your trees aren't worth more, don't charge it. If they are worth more, charge it.

Earl

I always believe that honesty is the best fertiliser for the growth of future business. However if we consider bonsai as an artform, a tree is worth what a buyer will pay. I'm sure that an artist won't sell his paintings for materials plus a nominal oncost. Time and the growers artistic and horticultural knowledge should be borne in mind. But if you want a buyer to return and recommend you to others your pricing must be fair and give value for money

This is becoming very interesting, I am enjoying reading the replies. To be fair, I will give you my thoughts later today. I am learning much about some of us.... and it is very informative.

For me, this thread, and OMC's of the faux auction, go along way to help give an image of the people we 'talk' to here. I can not say I will ever be able to meet face to face with some of you, but I sure would like to!!!!