We've discussed Mallsai many times before. It's a love-it hate-it relationship. Many of us were introduced to bonsai through Mallsai. This brings to mind the other side of the coin.

How about rather expensive 'finished' bonsai that the owner purchases and shows? Andy Rutledge wrote about displaying these trees, but they didn't really have a name before now. I propose calling them Snobsai.

What's your opinion? Do you own any Snobsai? Do you have a picture?

I understand that the term 'Snobsai' is pejorative in the same sense that a wine snob or car snob would be.
No one would be afraid to mention that a beautiful painting in their living room wasn't their own work, so why is there a stigma attached to Snobsai? I mean there is, isn't there? I suppose it comes down to the collector / artist mentality. It is probably a question of pride, too.

I hope I don't offend anyone with either the topic or the name I coined. I know some forum members have wonderful Snobsai that I appreciate immensely and even would be proud to own.

Some of my best trees were snobsai
Do I have any Snobsai myself? Well I did. I've bought and imported about twelve trees from Japan around ten years ago (when such activities were legal). Many have changed a lot, so I don't know if they have their original Snobsai character. They certainly did feel like Snobsai at the time, though! I bought deciduous trees (Crepe Myrtle, Trident Maple, Ginkgo and Ume) that were just stumps really with the intent of growing them out, healing scars and developing from the primary branching onwards.

Would I have any qualms about displaying any of them? No, I don't think so. I am rather proud of my snobsai. I am just sorry that I can't import more.

Regards,

Matt

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I must admit that if i had the money, I would love to own a masterpiece bonsai styled an developed by someone else. Buying that tree would make it mine, with all the responsibility, work and also the credit that brings should I choose to show the tree.

Having said that, I would happily attach the name of the original artist to the tree as a reference and provenance. I suppose thats really snobish in so far as it would say - Look what I have got (and you have not)!

Mike

Hi Matt,

My own thoughts on this are:

1. Nothing wrong in owning such trees.

2. You should always acknowledge the "History" (if known) of the tree.

3. Do not be afraid to exhibit.
(Just dont claim its ALL your own work)

I would expand on these points below.

To have such "quality" trees in a collection, one invariable needs to buy, since unless you started really young and gained "instant" knowledge of what to do with "potensai" you will NEVER have been able in your own lifetime to have developed such a tree. My one regret with Bonsai is not "finding it" sooner and I admire many of the younger posters on this forum. I think I saw a profile of someone of 15!! and there are certainly many members 18 - 21ish.

I hope that with Boyfriends/Girlfriends, Marriage, Buying a house, and Kids
they are able to keep with the interest. But perhaps herein lies another reason why it may be easier to "buy" established trees if you become addicted to the hobby later in life. I "found it" in my mid 20's but would say it was 10 years later before I had the skill to develop my own "quality" images.
Youngsters, with the wealth of knowledge available now, have a fantastic chance of developing trees over say a 40 year timescale.

With regard to exhibition, how do you distinguish between the enthusiast who has developed a quality tree over 25 years, to one who just dug up yamadori and styled it last year ! to the one who bought a speciman one last week !!!
Just be honest with HOW the tree got to the stage it is at. We all go to Art galleries to see someone elses art, why not appreciate a "Living" sculpture.

I love seeing such trees and get an immense amount of enjoyment. However, this still does not compare to the pride I get in a little juniper I started from a seedling 20 years ago and although never going to be a specimen IS ALL MY OWN WORK. I have seen it develop and have enjoyed the journey.

Getting the right balance as an enthusiast between both camps is simply THE JOY OF BONSAI !

Best to all,

Ian.

I was thinking exactly the same as Ian. I'm lucky in that i got into bonsai when i was twelve and have my whole life to develop some good bonsai. If i were 65, retiring from work and taking up bonsai as a passtime i would certainly purchase some quality specimins as i would not be able to grow a pine seedling for the next 50 years. This isn't to say that i wouldn't purchase one because i am young; if i had the money and the opportunity i probably would.

Al

I cannot afford the high priced stuff right now. If I won the lotto or something that may change. But that said I do feel a great sense of accomplishment when I convert something from a shrub to something that resembles a tree. This is where I get my greatest satisfaction. I also pride myself with being able to see the hidden tree in the bush (ability to pick good stock).

But I do not look down on snobsai. There is room in this world for everone, there is no reason to put others efforts (finacial or time) down. If you do not have the patience/time or know how to create your own bonsai but you do have the money to buy a masterpiece then great (I wish I had that luxury)! If it were not for people being involved at each and every level then nothing would work and the art would not be as advanced as it is now. I would also love to be in the position to be the guy that the rich people pay to take care of/transform their trees!

I suppose it may have something to do with my astrological sign. I am a Lebra so I like to see and accept both sides. I do not like the barriers some try to erect between the "different camps". Or in otherwords the way some look down on the others. We all start somewhere.

Newt

I try to buy the best trees I can afford, preferring mostly raw material to work on, with some styled trees to learn from and enjoy. When I have shown a photo of a "finished" tree, (I've never been in a show), I always make it clear that I can take no credit for the styling. As I make changes in the styling I take the credit, or blame, for that.

Brian

Never forget that BONSAI backwards is I A SNOB

Mike

I dont think there is anything wrong with these, i can not afford these and right now if I could afford one i wouldnt buy because id be too scared about killing it.

This really can be related to other things in life people indulge themselves in, comsumerists that is. They have an incredible looking pool, people dream of having one or even being able to swim in it. They probably have the "pool man" to come take care of it weekly or even daily. And some people buy "snobsai" (first time i've heard of this term.) Its one of the bonsai that some of us may dream about having/being able to take care of; or even being able to see it in person etc. They'll probably have the "bonsai man" (lol) come daily or so and take care of the specimen. It is kind of anoying if people dont appreciate the greatness that they have. But, maybe, maybe that person appreciates their pool, their "snobsai," and other things they can have. If they have the feeling inside to buy a bonsai not knowing a way to take care of it and can spend an extensive amount of money on it (their budget) then that person is just another noob bonsaist; the ones we see on here buying expensive trees and not knowing how to treat them. But thats ok, its a part of bonsai, and a part of life ingeneral, learning. Maybe they'll get way into it and be able to take care of the snobsai tree and change its name.

Well, sorry if I babled along there. Hope you get my drift.


-Evan

As long as we are "coining" terms here...


Artsia - Any bonsai styled beyond the norm who's beauty surpasses most examples.

Crowsai - Any bonsai that looks better in a well planned and taken photograph then it actually does in person.

SeeSawsai - Bonsai styled by a person who can't make up their mind as to whither they do bonsai for a hobby or for art. (See also FlipFlopsai for politicians)

Deadsai - Any bonsai that has been styled to death and just hasn't turned brown yet.

Geeksai - Any bonsai that has been styled strictly by the rules with no deviation what-so-ever.

Ripoffsai - Any overprice example of bonsai.

Wisesai - The men who beat you up for not buying the above

Shoesai - The numerical value given to a shoe in order to communicate the size foot it would best fit. Also available in concrete for the Wisesai.


Will Heath

lol, thank you very much, theres a name for every bonsai out there I see.

shoesai..lol
-evan