Damn, Busted!

I was looking for this pic yesterday. I wanted to post it on the Xmas card thread for the ladies. I'm secure enough in my masculinity to be seen in a wig....

Thanks Gary, Bonsai-al

BTW, I don't even remember taking that picture or the Halloween party... must have been a good one. If you remember Woodstock, you wern't there.

Doggone it Al, did you have to blow my cover on the schitzophrenia thing! I thought it was OK to be one person on your thread and another on mine!

Sigh! I guess it's really true; I am of more than one mind on this issue. The truth is, what you say does have merit; alot of merit even.

And it really does tend to make me crazy, trying to sort it all out.

But, still, I think that for me, in the end, bonsai represents more of a refuge from competition than an additional arena for it.

Best regards, Fred

LOL Bonsaial you caught me.

"Do you feel that you will provide more soul at some later date? Are you holding back your soul now, so that you can really make a charge later?"

To clarify when I sketch the plans for my trees I do put my soul into it. When I care for them I do also. However at the present I am so lacking experience that when I attempt something like wiring it becomes a very mechanical process. I imagine with time and more hands on experience it will become natural and I will be able to effectively "put my soul into it". At the present time I seam to be kicking and tripping over my soul when pushing my comfort zone and feeling like I may just kill at tree. lol Maybe if I killed one I wouldn't be so afraid of it happening.

I think I get what you are saying though and my thought is we are simply not articulating things clearly.

The sentence " I do bonsai to please myself" can mean several things.

1) I don't care to compete but want to do bonsai to the best of my ability

2) I don't care what anyone thinks of my bonsai they are mine

3) I would like to make great bonsai but as long as I like it I will be happy

4) As long as it's alive and I like it that's all I want

I imagine most who make the above comment fall into the first category.

FredL I can totally relate to your running story. That is exactly how dressage is for me. Once I stopped competing I found new joy in what was once "required training" now to me it is a freeing of my spirit and my proficiency increased tremendously and still is increasing by leaps and bounds.

I am a very competitive person by nature and see that my drive to be the best was overshadowing my love for dressage in and of itself there fore taking the joy out of it. Perhaps this is why bonsai for me doesn't and will not involve competition. hmmm famous last words lol okay by that last statement "will not involve competition" I can almost guaranty that one day it will involve competition. lol

LOL Did I talk in enough of a circle there for everyone?

Alicia, I can understand that perfectly. I have the same feelings about making stands sometimes. I find refuge to go into my garage and decide to spontaneously make a stand. Cut the wood and glue the joints and sand the wood. When I am done I feel very gratified at what I have created. As soon as someone puts the pressure on to make fourty of them for a shop, the fun goes away and it becomes a job. Same for pruning trees at the nursery. The guy that owns it wants me to spend every Sat. there pruning trees to sell faster. This somehow takes the fun out of it.

Bonsai artists have to feel comfortable about what they are doing or the fun goes away. If some feel that way about showing I understand perfectly.

Al K

Al,

A good sense of humor is one of your good qualities!

I think you have to kill a few trees before...........no....what am I saying?

What's the old saying? You can't have just a few bonsai because you'll kill them with kindness.

Al said:

"What astounds me, is that for the most part people wish to remain on the fringe. I don't understand that. While I know that I have aspirations that are not felt by everyone, I would think that we could all admit that we want to create the best tree possible, with artistic merits that one would find beautiful"

Al, I'm not sure what you mean by the fringe. Do you mean that people that don't do shows are on the fringe? If so I'd say that includes most of us in "the community" . I understand your point about getting feedback about ones trees from other growers and picking up the latest tips but I think you may be over rating that aspect. Good critiques and more of them does not necessarily make you a better bonsai artist/grower/hacker/whatever you want to call it. Ultimately you're going to have to take the tree home, yes to your lowly backyard, and perform your bonsai transition there. All you really need is a vision and to know the limitations of the tree you're working with. Most of that comes by trial and error.

You said: I would think that we could all admit that we want to create the best tree possible, with artistic merits that one would find beautiful"

I think we would all agree with that. Even the people that received the Christmas mallsai want to make it the best tree possible. Bonsai is a great hobby but for most of us, it is not our total reason for being. What you are forgetting about is the limiting factors of life that are either forced upon us or that we place on ourselves. Take Rene' for instance. He limits his bonsai time because he has young children to raise and teach, a worthy cause to be sure, and in the big picture of life is much more important than whether he ever has show quality bonsai or not. Me, I'm just a cranky old coot that doesn't like to travel so there's less excuse for me. But we all, for whatever reason, have these limitations on our life. I'll bet we could all go out and get 2nd mortgages on our homes and buy a few $10,000 trees. That would certainly improve the collection but most of us realize what a nutty idea that is, so we limit ourselves to a budget. Bonsai is big enough for showboaters, show goers, tree huggers and tree hackers and the majority will never enter a tree in a big show. Besides, you guys out there in Cal. are spoiled. you're in the bonsai capital of the U.S. with plenty of nurseries and shows handy. Try coming to Podunk Oklahoma and striking up a bonsai conversation. In fact, when you and Andy get the details of the U.S show worked out I hope you have it right here in Podunk. It's a nice central location and I promise to come.

Tony

Al, you ask the question and provide the answer yourself.

Let me explain. I have been toying with joining my local club for over a year now, but for one reason or another, mainly time and transport, I never have. I would like to join, and may eventually get around to doing so, but I'm not sure when. Might be 5 weeks down the line, or 5 years.

So, if/when I do eventually join, and post up that I have, you can be sure some eagle-eyed elephant-memoried member of bonsaitalk will say "but you said you only wanted to do it in your back garden", and I am left looking a right 'nana.

None of us can really say for definate what we will think in 6 months time... even that's not true really, I don't think I will ever consider myself an artist.

On that subject, is it correct to call everyone who ran in the London marathon an athlete? Is everyone who does home finances a mathematician? Is every person who brews homebrew beer a chemist? The list of comparisons could go on and on.

And on the subject of marathons, 99% of participants know full well that they will not win. The London marathon attracts thousands of participants. There can only be one winner. I don't remember who won the last one, but I can remember the pictures on the TV of all the ordinary people plodding round in 5 hours.

You can't have every tom, dick and harriet clamouring for their trees to be accepted as art. Also there just isn't room for thousands and thousands of trees to be shown at shows. I am sure that anyone faced with a half-mile plod down a row of 2500 trees would eventually get bored with it, no matter how fantastic the trees are.
My point is that for every tree that wins an award at a show, there are thousands 'underneath' that don't, and probably never will. There can't be a pinnacle without the mountain underneath.

More corn for the mill...

Regards,

TB

TB, I thank you for your response. you have made valid points. But I am not talking about the points you made. Everyone knows there can be only one first.

But there can be a "new" first next year. What I am talking about is who wants to go to the marathon to see Buford Gonchoroff win every year. I go to bonsai shows to see who improved from the previous year. I realize that my post must sound like I am a nut or something, but you guys are mixing too many things into the rhetoric.

My point is, don't let your self be caught up in the 'My trees not good enough catagory" if your goal is to display it.

If your goal is not to display it, what do I care. I just want people that are wanting to move on to build the confidence to show it and not feel intimadated by public showing. It's not that bad!

I in no way would ever want someone to think I would put bonsai before family obligations, thats just not my style.

Bonsai-al

Treebeard said:



Actually for me, the answer is yes.

While brewing beer for the guy that makes a little for himself might just think of himself as a backyard brewmaster, what happens when he gives some to the right guy.

I could tell you two seperate stories of guys right here in Fresno that were back yard brewmasters. They had no intention of brewing beer for anyone but themelves.

Now they brew some beer, it is good because they are good at what they do, they have entered the fair a couple of times, took it to some parties, were not afraid to let there homebrew be seen out in public. Next thing you know they have people wanting them to make some for them, they are offered money for their beer. Lots of money, pretty soon they needed bigger equipment to mix over 500 gallons per week. Poof! Butterfields Brewery is born. I am happy to say that I had indulged in gallons of their beer before they were famous. I can honestly say that the beer I had before was the same quality that it is now. The same for Bulldog Brewery. They were pretty good friends.

They didn't start out as chemist's,
But the were.

They didn't call themselves brewmasters,
but they were.

They didn't call themselves millionairs
but they are!

This scenario could be applied to any of the items you listed above. I guess being an artist has to be a state of mind, if you say you are not an artist then maybe your not. For me, I am an artist, I will continue to strive for excellance in all that I do whether thats bonsai, my job, my wife, my children,or my stands.

I have to make room for it all!

Bonsai-al