bonsaiTALK Community - The Role of a Critic

#21

by Will_Heath on 31-Dec-2004

I feel that as with most other skills, there are distinct levels of ability for critiquing.

A newcomer to the art has little if any knowledge or experience to apply a critique to any object. A person who has been doing bonsai for a number of years may have the capability to critique from beginning efforts to your average bonsai, yet nothing more advanced than he has the knowledge or experience for. While a master such as Walter has the knowledge and experience to critique even the most famous world class bonsai.

People recognize these levels, in fact in our own ATM section a level has been set, show ready bonsai only. We do not expect Walter to spend his time on pre-bonsai, but even those need critiques. Where are the less than world class, less than show ready bonsai to be critiqued and by who?

To claim that only 1% of the people here are qualified to critique leaves a very high percentage of people who will have no one to critique or to offer advise simply because of their level.

Instead people should recognize their ability and try not to critique above it. A level system would be perfect where one could advance though the levels as they advance. However, this would be difficult to set up and would need a world class master to set the standards and oversee the process. An easier way would be to monitor ourselves and call foul when there is a foul.

I have heard a few complain about people giving critiques that are not qualified to do so, yet I have not read any logical disputes or debates pointing this out to anyone. In fact, I don't think I have ever heard anyone besides the person on the receiving end complain, I could be wrong but my searches turn up nothing.

I can't help but to notice how this subject closely borders the qualified to give advice discussions.

Just my 1/2 cents worth,

Will

Note to avoid confusion:

I am not qualified to give a formal critique, nor do I or have I claimed to be. Keep in mind that formal critiques and advice are not one and the same, although my above comments could just as easily pertain to advice.

#22

by Frogboy on 31-Dec-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vance Wood

I have a problem with the above. There is no doubt that everyone who looks at bonsai is going to have some sort of opion from claiming bonsai is tree abuse to the esoteric and absurd. Someone who is critiquing a judged show must have some sort of idea what he or she is doing, what those who have participated in the show are doing and be able to explain why he or she has judged the way they have. In the example Walter gave of the Coastal Live Oak, he grew to love the tree for what it expressed but understood as far as bonsai sensibilities the tree was off the charts. However he did and does know the differences and can defend his positions. If this is not the way things should be then why don't just pick some wineo off the street to judge our next show?

I didn't get the impression that we were really talking about show-level, formal critique so much as low-to-mid level, "Hey, I'd take off that third branch" critique. Obviously, there are people who have devoted much time and effort to learning the forms and artistry behind bonsai. Those are the people who are chosen to judge "finished" bonsai at shows, and the organizers of the shows obviously would not ask a neophyte to be a judge. Unfortunately, very few of those learned people frequent this forum, and those that do already have a firm grasp of the methods of formal critique.

I saw this thread as an "Idiot's Guide" (sorry, Will) to general critique. But before you go ignoring the wino on the street, ask yourself if maybe he might echo the sentiments of the large majority of people when viewing a bonsai. As I said before, there are very few people qualified to give formal critique. The vast majority of people simply know what looks right. They can't define it, but they do recognize it.

Having a tree that all the experts agree is wonderful but most of the world thinks looks terrible may be considered a proud achievement, to rise above the masses and achieve something they in their puny intellects can't even understand. Personally, I think art that doesn't appeal to a broad range of viwers is akin to intellectual masturbation.

So don't overlook Joe Average when asking for advice. He may have something worthwhile to say. Part of growing as an artist is learning what advice to heed and what advice to politely ignore.

Frog

#23

by mike_p on 7-Jan-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walter_Pall

A California Live Oak was exhibited at the GSBF Convention 2003 in Fresno, CA.
This was my critique of the oak by Katsumi Kinoshita from Monterey, CA

“This is the ugliest tree of this exhibit! Oh is this ugly! I walk away from it, but stop to look back It is really ugly. Going towards the tree again a bit. How can someone dare to exhibit such a tree in an important show? Everything is wrong on this bonsai. Is it even a bonsai, or just a piece of material in a pot? Look at the reverse taper – terrible. Where is the Nebari? Nonexistent. Where is the fist branch? Oh this is supposed to be the first branch? It is atrocious – sets the theme for the whole tree, yes. This crown looks more like a mushroom than a bonsai. On a scale from one to hundred this tree gets minus fifteen points. Oh is it ugly! Walking away from it and letting the tree speak for a while.
Looking back again and trying to see some detail Going closer, very close. Look at this here in the back of the crown, this is a big old hole. A giant owl must live here. Look at the bark – this is so rugged. How come this most atrocious first branch has such an unusual shape. Where did this tree get the huge scars? This must be a very old tree. The longer I look at it the older it gets. This oak may well be five hundred years old. How about that! This oak was there before the Spaniards came. The guard of the valley saw the native Americans the Spaniards going by; it saw the Russians, the gold diggers; it saw the Republic of California! It has seen it all - much much more than we will ever see. This tree owns the valley. It is so strong that it cold not care less what we think of it. We don’t exist regarding this oak. What does it concern the old oak tree when the sow rubs it’s back at it?
I have deep respect of this tree. I start to admire it. It is so ugly! Ugly in a very serious way, in a respectable way, like a very old person. This tree impresses me deeply.

Is it a bonsai? Is it a good bonsai? Well, if bonsai is a craft and to be judged by the intellect it is a terrible bonsai. If bonsai is an art then we have to ask: is it art when it touches your soul? Yes. Is it high art when it touches your soul very much? Yes. Isn’t art about creating something beautiful? NO! Art is about creating something that touches your soul – can well be ugly.
This tree is so ugly that it has started to be beautiful again. Do we want to improve this oak? No, but maybe we make it a bit more ugly.”

The image is the Oak as it was seen in the GSBF 2003 convention exhibit. I shot the whole exhibit and have kept it in my file.

Mike

Attached Images

oak_1.jpg (70.1 KB, 46 views)

#24

by Vance Wood on 9-Jan-2005

This tree is ugly if you indeed look at it from the traditional and by the numbers scheme of things. However if you have ever seen these trees in the wild you have to agree that this one looks like one of the old Grandfather trees, you might see struggeling along the coast.

The tree is more grotesque than ugly. I love this tree it tells stories and has a history. If it were an old Native American before the comming of the White Man he would be revered as a man of great wisdom, a medicine man and the younger men would has sought out his advise and blessings. This tree talks to you.

The Japanese say that special things have a sort of spirit to them known as Kami. I would have to say this tree has Kami.

All of this should confirm the necessity of a judge or critic having at least a love of the art.

#25

by mike_p on 11-Jan-2005

I've been thinking about the Kinoshita oak, and Walter's remarkable critique.
These thoughts came to mind.
If you pay homage to the homely, you may find beauty in the bizarre, and grandeur in the grotesque.

haiku
do not scorn the weed
search for beauty in all things
even the humble

I penned this haiku many years ago for a lady that made beautiful accent plants out of ugly weeds.

Mike

#26

by pootsie on 12-Jan-2005

Check out this link:
http://www.cbc.ca/story/arts/nation...dart050111.html

Then ask yourself, do the garbage collectors need more training in recognizing art ... or does the 'artist' need more training in making art?

pootsie