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  #21  
by Joanie on 16-Nov-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repotter
Joanie, it would be great to see pics of this tree we have been speaking about.

Or maybe an ongoing post of its progress as you make those changes.

Hector

The reason that you haven't seen it earlier is this very dilemma that worried me so. Once I show it to you, and ask for your suggestions, I need to be clear what is acceptable and what is not, within the context of the tree itself. Ruining it impulsively would be worse than not touching it at all. It's too easy to go at something with the concave cutters and worry later about whether it was the right thing to do. And it probably won't be nearly as interesting to you as this debate may seem to make it, the debate was about the ethics more than the tree.

So, tomorrow there will be pictures for you to play with!

Joanie
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  #22  
by Attila on 16-Nov-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattPenton
Joanie:

When will you... if ever... call this your tree?

Joanie can call it her tree right now.

If the next question is "who created this tree?", then she can elaborate on the history of the tree and she can talk about who did what, if that's what the interviewer wants to hear.
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  #23  
by soonami on 16-Nov-2005
Bonsai are living objects, and as such they are in a state of constant change. I think it is implied when you receive a tree from someone, that they give you permission to project your vision onto it. The issue of trust is important, would you trust someone with one of your trees if you thought they would kill it or destory it? I know that I wouldn't give someone that I did not trust a tree, furthermore, if the tree stays alive, then the spirit of the previous owner stays with tree even if it changes form.

You honor the original owner by preserving the tree's life and passing it on to a future generation. The tree will outlive you, so you are only its temporary caretaker.
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  #24  
by RonMartin(deceased)
on 16-Nov-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joanie
Upon getting it home, the actual shape of the tree started to sink in. It took a while to consider what it could use to make it better. Then it began to sink in that if I restyled the tree, it might take years to get back up to a high standard. The whole top needs to come off, it needs much in the way of smaller branches. No work has been done on secondary branching, it has been treated like a pine. So it looks like an oak dressed up as a pine. It will never look like a naturalistic oak, but it could use a spreading canopy and more branching all over, and a reduction in height. That's going to be a long journey.
Joanie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joanie
But for this tree, that does have a history and an original artist, it will never really be mine. It will be influenced, perhaps.... it will grow in a different way than anyone else's touch would grow it. And I will be influenced by it, as well. It will retain a little of the awe, a little of the glamour... a sense of continuity that gives a different satisfaction.

Joanie

Did the same lady say all this.
From what I get from your comments you have a bad tree that needs a lot of work. But it does have a history.
All bonsai artists are judged by the quality of their trees. Sounds like yours had a history of bad styling.
Go for it and you might just make a great tree from what you have.
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  #25  
by Joanie on 16-Nov-2005
Yes, Ron, the comments were both about the same tree. They are the two sides of the dilemma. The practical side, and the side of the heart. The side that itches to chop and prune and overlay the tree with a new vision, and the side that wants to honor and respect and defer to the past.

Oh, and we can't forget the timid "not worthy" newbie side that is rather frightened of ruining this old tree.

Joanie
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  #26  
by RonMartin(deceased)
on 16-Nov-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joanie
Yes, Ron, the comments were both about the same tree. They are the two sides of the dilemma.
Joanie

One side says it is a crappy tree. the other gives a fix for the crappiness.
No matter how famous the artist, crap is still crap. Do you want to honor that
Fix it and then you are the artist ;o)
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  #27  
by Joanie on 16-Nov-2005
Sounds like a plan, Ron! Fix it. Make it the best tree that it can be.



Joanie
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  #28  
by mgodbee on 16-Nov-2005
do what you want with the tree... IT IS YOUR TREE!! I understand your dilema but if you trust your vision do it. I know some of Naka's trees I have seen, I would change if I had them... I know he had a cypress tree with all the branches hanging straight down from the crown. I thought the tree was gorgeous but the branching terrible. If I had it I would have changed the branching even though it was styled by NAKA. If Naka gave me the tree to keep in his memory, then I would leave it be.. I am guessing if Peter Chan sold Naka a tree, Naka would do what he wanted with it. Joanie, you are my NAKA.... do it, change it...
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  #29  
by RonMartin(deceased)
on 16-Nov-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joanie
Sounds like a plan, Ron! Fix it. Make it the best tree that it can be.



Joanie

Good girl. Just let us see it when you get done with it
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  #30  
by Joanie on 16-Nov-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMartin
Good girl. Just let us see it when you get done with it

See it? Are you kidding? You're going to HELP me with it!

Joanie
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