How do you think that Bonsai has changed since introduction to the West? How is it different from traditional Japanese forms?

Thanks

It is not nearly as strict with the rules.

Hi daristotle, (?)

"Bonsai" has not changed at all because of introduction to the West. The differences in form or style between here and Japan are only those of individual style and ability. Poor examples of Japanese bonsai are not often publicly shown or published, while poor examples of Western bonsai are commonly displayed in the different media. As a result, poor or underdeveloped Western bonsai are often compared (rather unfavorably) with excellent Japanese bonsai. That is not really a level playing field, but the reality beyond this publicly visible playing field does exist.

It is hazardous to apply a single "style" of bonsai to that in Japan and contrast it with a single "style" of bonsai as produced in the West, because the work in Japan varies greatly from individual to individual, just as it does elsewhere.

Even among the greatly skilled individuals in Japan, there are glaring stylistic differences and issues of taste that bring as much debate and contention there as there seems to be here. We're not often privy to those discussions so it is easy for us to assume otherwise.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas

Andy said: "Poor examples of Japanese bonsai are not often publicly shown or published, while poor examples of Western bonsai are commonly displayed in the different media."

Interesting point. I hadn't thought of that and wonder why it is. I know friends who dabble in other hobbies and arts--pottery, painting, etc. and they all enthusiastically enter their work in contests at county fairs and local art fairs, join local galleries, display their work and put if up for sale...even though none of them would claim to be a master. Much of it is certainly poor art and poor examples of their craft but the attitude of "you can show it if you want" is encouraged.

Is this true for most of the "West", including Europe, Australia, England...

Either way, I think it is a healthy way to approach, appreciate and learn about art.

Earl

I think that more people in the West are involved with the idea of "quickie bonsai" and that they want all their bonsai to be done in a matter of years, if not months. I am certainly guilty of this myself, but I'm slowly learning the road of patience.

It became a whole lot more fun ;o)

Andy, thanks for this comment. I doubt that my opinion is worth that much, but, for what it is worth, I agree with what you have said.

Awhile back, I saw a beautiful tree presented on this forum by Walter Pall (most of his are!). I looked at it and thought, "What a magnificent example of Informal Upright". Upon reading Walter's comments, come to find out it wasn't informal upright at all. but done in the Naturalistic Style.

Well you could have fooled me (some folks say it doesn't take that much!). As well as 99% of the practitioners in Japan, is my guess.

You make me think that it would be nice if we identified "Bonsai Schools" (if such things do exist) by the names of their originators. Or perhaps an outstanding charactaristic. Anything but nation-state. I think it would in effect serve to recognize that people of similar temperment and artistic sensibility live scattered over the world in different places and cultures. Too much nationalism and emphasis on national differences in the world today. Makes us see too much in terms of national differences that has very little to do with them.

Oh, by the way, congratulations on another superb issue of "Bonsai Today". This publication just keeps getting better end better!

Regards, Fred

Hi FredL,

You wrote:
"You make me think that it would be nice if we identified "Bonsai Schools" (if such things do exist) by the names of their originators. Or perhaps an outstanding charactaristic. Anything but nation-state. I think it would in effect serve to recognize that people of similar temperment and artistic sensibility live scattered over the world in different places and cultures. Too much nationalism and emphasis on national differences in the world today. Makes us see too much in terms of national differences that has very little to do with them."
---------------------------

Thanks for your nice comments and interesting thought above. You know, this is/was the standard in China for a long time. The "styles" there are fairly distinct and they are sylistic traditions, each of which encompases any of the trunk forms/styles that we're familiar with. It is not necessarily better, but it is neat and different. So, you're in good company in your sentiments.

As for BT magazine, thanks again for the nice comments. I like this issue, content-wise, but I'm a bit disgusted with the color in the photos. The printer dropped the ball big time, I think. Oh well, that's life. ;-)

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas (currently, Massachusetts)

Well I'll talk about what I have seen in Australia and this is only my opinion. Different clubs in Australia are basically split into two categories I believe. One category mainly focus on achieving tradtional sytles and quality of trees like the Japanese and use the typical species used in Japan, while the other category attempt more natural looking trees and work mainly with Australian natives.

My club is more focused on the "traditional" styles and try and keep to that. It has mainly been through the influence of one man who started us and kept us in that direction. He is very ill at the moment and the future is very short for him. He was a seasoned traveller to Japan and had many contacts and friends there. His influenece in the club and a few other clubs too has made our club following the more traditional approach to bonsai. We do however allow anyone in the club to display their trees and encourage it all the time.

The other category of more naturalistic style trees is mainly done with Australian natives which simply could not be styled in the traditional manner of the Japanese for horticultural reasons. The influence here has come from a handful of enthusiasts who promote this style of bonsai.

So I guess in Australia, bonsai is split into two different sections among the clubs with one side following the Japanese influence(which I much more prefer) and the other side following the naturalistic approach and ignoring a lot of the traditional techniques of the Japanese. In other words one group has gone the Japanese bonsai way while the other has gone the penjing chinese way. I believe the following for the Penjing Naturalistic way is large than the traditional Japanese bonsai way.

David

Andy this time you hit the nail on the head.
I know that you were speaking of finished trees. By defanition a tree ready to show.
I feel that one of the problems with American bonsai is that the artists are not willing to learn or apply good horticultural techniques in the preperation of the material that they want to show.
I know that in Japan a tree will be allowed the time that is necessary, (some times many years) to reach the peak of perfection befor being shown in public.
In our culture we want to buy it today, beat it into a pot and show it tomorrow.
It is true that there are exceptions to this thought but as long as it is generally true there will be a percieved gap in the appearence of American bonsai.

Glenn