Aretha said it best! *I think everyone wants to feel respect. It's a shame when someone has things to offer but feels that they are not taken seriously. The IBC is a very snooty forum. The folks that post there on a regular basis are above average bonsai artist. When someone new comes along, the pictures that are posted are sometimes not conducive to good bonsai much less help. If people don't get a response they never come back. Thier loss. Sometimes trees are posted on this forum *that do not recieve replys in a timley manner. I have seen the owner of the tree actually ask "why is no one talking about my tree". Out of courtesy(at least here) some sympathy posts will appear. Now I don't know about you guys and gals, but if I havn't gotton a response by the next day at the very least, I feel that what I had to offer was not substitive enough to solicit a response. If I have to ask for it, then it will be out of pitty and probably not of that much use.

I try to do information type articles. I do not expect anyone to do bonsai in the way that I do bonsai. I hang out on the pages of Bonsai Talk for the entertainment value that it provides. I love to talk to the friends that I have made on this forum and expect to do that for years to come. I have yet to meet Matt, but will in the future I am sure. We send personel emails once in a while and I feel that I have known him for years. That is just the kind of personality Matt has. He has stepped in and with his wisdom of the english language, fixed arguments in one sentance that would take the arguee's a lifetime to fix.

Last night was quite an expieriance. We had about 8 or 9 fans on the chat lines, Juliet of OZ, Earl, Bonsai1, bonsaial1, Mister Crow, simsorbarton, Adam, and a few guests. Sorry if I missed you in my sentance. We had a blast, and talked bonsai for 2 hours. The topic of ettiquite came up. It was decided that there must be disagreements from time to time or this forum would get pretty boring in a hurry. You get a few feathers rustled and the flaming file icon is on the thread in no time.

Now what this all has to do with is this. You have entered the public forum of views and debate. This is no different than standing on a busy street corner trying to spread the truth about religion. You are going to come up against people that disagree with you. When you sign up on this forum you enter into a forum with different points of view about subjects that have as many ways to do them as there are new colors of M-M's. * Think about this.... How many posts have you really wrote down and decided to make a change in the way you do bonsai. I can tell you this in the forum that was here before tree bay I had over 500 posts. When the server went down after 9/11 Tree bay somehow got the whole kitten kaboodle. I well over 500 posts here. I have passed on some usefull information. I am almost positive that no one is doing bonsai the way I do bonsai. I have read some great posts here and on other forums. I have not really used the info in the practise of how I do bonsai. I have gotton some great virtual's from Walter Pall and Ian on the IBC. I have printed them and will probably use them for referance when I eventually style the respective tree's. I still just do it my way. But you like to check in with other folks from time to time just to see if you are still on track. Nothing wrong with that.

I used to belong to the Eagle's Club. It's a National club that promotes comraderi between men with a lot a drinking thrown in. The motto of the Eagle's Club is this: "If I can't speak good of an Eagle, Then I will not speak ill of him."
If I don't respond to a post it's because I don't have anything usefull to add. I can't see knocking one's stuff just to type more words. I also feel that if someone is giving information out that may be wrong, I feel that it should be corrected as long as the correction is correct. If you are giving an opinion than phrase it that way.


I feel very gratefull that Matt has included 3 of the past articles I have written in his newsletter. I feel honered to have been asked to moderate the suiseki forum. Also to have the introduction broken up as the FAQ. BTW, this newsletter just keeps getting better. You are going to love this one. I feel very gratefull that the Spring Show idea has met with much enthusiasm. I respect each and every post to the show. I know how hard it is to post a picture of a tree that you feel is not worthy, me included. I know the foemina juniper grove that I posted is not the best, and I hesitated on showing it. But it will make a nice before photo for next spring when its restyled.

I think in the final anaylisis, you have to take this forum for what its worth. Great entertainment value!! You get to ask questions, have them answered, post a photo, get a virtual, read an entertaining argument, get a free newsletter.

Lighten up,, there just trees in pots!! Bonsaial

You said it all bonsaiAL - if a forum is not built on respect one day or another it will collapse. fortunately some of the ppl out here share their experience that they have to offer to beginers like me, and do not keep their knowledge to themselves. Unfortunately many of the members do not reply but just see and keep everthing to themselves

Simsorbartin

If somebody posts a tree in the gallery and says s/he just wants people to see it, I won't offer ideas. If I like it, I'll say so. If I don't, I keep my mouth shut. But if somebody posts a tree and says they want ideas (and they often say they want criticism) I'll give it. I think the lively debate about each others ideas is stimulating. If I say "Cut x branch off" and somebody else thinks that's a crock, I want them to speak up. Disagreeing with ideas is not flaming. Flaming is attacking the person or hers or his integrity. That should not be done.

Because I am not as experienced as many, I have incorporated many ideas from Bonsai Talk. I have a Quince that is getting air layered, I am exposing my trees to more sun, I have changed potting mixes, I have a pine that I completely changed the angle and branching...all from ideas posted here...either directly to me or to others.

Regarding advice from novices (discussed in the Captain thread...these two are really overlapping and responding to the same issues), lay it on me! Please don't shut up because you are not an expert. I guess I'm not from the school that says "Master teach, students sit quietly." I'm more "Teacher (or expert) guide me, but let's all jump into the fray." I also have a good bit a skepticism about anybody that thinks they have all the answers! Often, the best advice comes from the novice that has fresh and new ideas. I'm into bonsai because I love it, and I hope I'm intelligent enough to figure out answers that work for me. And I can only figure out the answers with a lot of input. I also hope others are not relling only on advice from Bonsai Talk but gleaning info everywhere.

So let's remember to respect others but please...everybody...keep up the lively debate, novice and expert alike!

This thread is quite similar to "Sympathy for the Captain" as Earl mentioned above, but it has a bit of a different feeling in it. Here people are discussing about respect to the others and to the forum itself.

I think you're all right about these things. It is not all about the responses you get; you also learn when you respond to someone else's thread. A thread can be very boring if it only has opinions concerning that very tree, and very interesting if it discusses within the responses. However, I don't think it's fair to the thread's starter if the discussion is about someone else's tree, in his/her own thread.

By sending posts we can affect each other. If somebody asks for comments on his/her tree, they should be given. But that's no reason to be rude to the owner of the tree. Most of us can speak english so well that we are not forced to tell the owner "I don't like your tree. It's ugly."

Ofcourse, we shouldn't judge anyone by that. It may aswell be that the sender's english is just so bad he/she can't say it better in this language. Think about this: how many of your can say for example "Your tree is beautiful" in finnish? Not many. It's not the sender's fault if he/she can't express him/herself in english too well.


Zeb

PS. "Your tree is beautiful" in finnish: "Sinun puusi on kaunis"

Hi,

I agree about most things said here, but for me there's nothing worse than finally having the nerve to post a picture of a tree and then get zero response. Just tell me it's cr###, tell me to burn it, tell me to find another hobby, I don't care... Just as long as you tell me SOMETHING. For a beginner like myself ANY information is usefull, even if you think you don't have anything worthwile to say about it.

Just my opinion, René

Unfortunately, the internet is full of people who take advantage of the fact we can't see them and just act like pompous jerks. They probably suppress all their criticism until they get home and then flame away

Would you believe it, even on a Buddhist forum I used to check out people were like that.