Hi Carl,

I don't have as many problems with the bald cypress composition as you seem to. Actually, it is one of my favorites from the exhibit. ;-) I like the copper patina as a suggestion of water and the "spiky" things don't offend me as much as they do you. I hadn't thought about their termination in the middle of the backdrop which makes me think that it may not be a problem. I agree that the tree could have gone to the right just a little bit. The two lower branches follow the movement of the trunk and lead your eye to the left, so moving the tree a bit to the right would probably look better. Actually, I think that the color of the pot was a nice match to the copper patina.

I also have to agree with Matt that the contrast of the foliage against the wood planks was pretty good, unlike some of the other compositions.

Sorry to disagree on so many points, but I guess we each call 'em as we see 'em. It's still cool to discuss this stuff. ;-)

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
b u n j i n | d e s i g n :: www.bunjindesign.com
zone 8, Texas

Andy,

Don't apologize for disagreeing! I'm really glad to hear your thoughts on this tree. It gives me some sense of where I'm going right and where I'm going wrong in trying to understand why this one didn't do it for me.

And I'm really glad for this discussion. I've learned quite a bit already. Thanks for getting it going!!!

With respect to the theory of landscape painting, is there a book or two that you'd recommend to a bonsai artist who knows little -to-nothing about art theory in general?

-Carl / OMC

Hi Carl,

Sure, a couple of good books are, "Keys to Successful Landcape Painting" by Foster Caddell - an older book (1976) and also "Painting Better Landscapes" by Margaret Kessler - a modern book. Of the two, the Caddell book is the best as it shows a poor and good example for each principle he examines. There are surely other good ones, but this may be a good start.

Actually, if you can't find either of these books, any large bookstore should have books on landscape painting - look for ones that closely examine composition. These lessons are usually directly applicable to bonsai composition.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
b u n j i n | d e s i g n :: www.bunjindesign.com
zone 8, Texas

Andy No offense taken I am the worst at digging into someone until I get an answer that I can understand and not shy about it.
Allmost every one finds this offensive but I don't mind becaus I get to learn something.

Glenn

Treenut,



I do too. Here ya go. We have to get back to real art before this gets too heady!


I know, I know, I forgot the shadows and the dripping oil with the cleanup crew. Please forgive my artistic interpretation.

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Oh, I get it.....

That's how those tridents get those nasty roots?

This little bit of advise may seem obvious too those with photography, painting, or composition experience, but try squinting. You can't always carry your handy world-desaturator in your back pocket when observing art but squinting is a workable alternative. The color receptors (cones) in your eyes are only able to function well in the presence of ample light. Your more light sensative (and thus contrast sensative) black and white rods are able to work in a much darker environment. Its an artifical night vision if you want to look at it that way. You should be immediatly able to ignore color while focusing on shade and tone.

D.S.

Andy,

I feel rather differently about the layout of the bronse swamp reed and pine composition. The way that it was presented for the show was more in keeping with basic viewing principles, especially in regards to the preferences of my own eye.

First lets get the problems out of the way. Pots one and three speak to each other aesthetically. Pot two is rather a large step in a completely new direction. Not only that, but I wonder at the blocky union between the pot and cat tail as circled.

I would say that I see a more naturalistic form in the cat tail than you expressed seeing. I noted in my picture that the leave actually curved around the flower which was deceptive at first myself, and may have lead others to belive it was a stiffer composition than it actually is. This is one of those subtle visual clues that remind us we are missing out in a dimension not being there in person. On the other hand, I doubt they would let us pull out the colored pens and write all over their trees to establish a point.

In the actual presentation (the larger one) My eye enters the frame at a point on or near the left edge of the tree (at the red arrow). It enters teh canopy via the belegant sweep of teh left lower branch and may choose to rest therew a while, or may flow down the "incomplete side of the triangle of foliage. The movement is prompted in that direction by the starkly contrasting deadwood spiral up and out the jinned branch. That is the launching point.


The swamp plants to the right catch us and guide us back around to be propelled back to teh base of the original tree. Too have added a wooden stand as traditional easthetics call for would be introducing a fourth element to the composition. An akward even number that would most certainly cause balance issues, as well as tinker with the odd number preferences of the asian asthetic.

The larger accent is placed a bit forward of the main form, while the small is placed back. You were wise to keep this form in your study as its effect in the third dimension (actual viewing) is to repeat the flow. We have triangles within triangles within triangles. A very powerfull graphic element. Even teh larger bronce is a small triangle of its own (this is another failing of the smaller accent.) If a stand was to be introduced a very low wood one with the plant at its extreme left and its right edge reaching to fill the space occupied by teh smallest accent might be employed but it would call for the elimination of said accent. Thus maintaning the odd number. It would unfortunatly lose the extra depth afforded by the horizontal repetition of the theme.

With your composition (inset) my eye starts in space above the weakest point, pot number two. The bronzes become stronger elements than they deserve given the beauty of the tree. The fact is, any artistic competition with nature is a non-starter. Humans prefer the natural in a very strong way. We challenge that by actually encouraging teh eye to rest on teh bronze much longer and in a much more significant way than it should.

The fine triangular form is lost (or severly flattened) and the dialog between elements becomes linear. The stark contrast of the jin may actually cause the eye to shift completely out of the composition. I also feel (and this is more subjective) that teh little plant becomes irredimable in your composition. It acts as a cell tower amid a copse of low trees.

My evaluation, summed up, would be; the artist chose to fill the percieved void in the trees triangular form. (This negative space is one of the trees biggest advatages when it stands alone, but a liability in a grouping.) The smallest peice could be righted with an apprpriate pot (same height but more relevent style; perhaps a lip and). Its overall successfull. Which is more than I can say for some. In defense of rips choosing one of the most successfull trees to make his point, I feel you chose the a few of the least.

Respectfully,
Justin

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Warhol bonsai

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Hi Justin,

Your good points, my prior thoughts and subsequent ones all lead me back to my original premise, which is: these three elements were not made to be displayed together -- which is the overriding fault of this entire exhibit.

I appreicate your further dissection of this composition and I now tend to agree that the more "comfortable" composition in the original picture works best, but unfortunately that's not saying much. I suggest that it works best because the complimentary elements are unsuitable for this tree in the first place. I continue to be disturbed by the non-contextual makeup of the components - a marsh theme with a mountain larch (complete with prominent jin!). In light of this, any playing around with further compositional elements (stands of various types) is a bit fruitless, in my opinion.

As to my other choices for illustration, you're right on the money. As this exercise was done to highlight problem issues for those here who were not too familiar with these kinds of artistic concerns, I thought that the more obvious ones would work best. Surely, that was what was on Glenn's mind when putting forth his arguments as well ;-).

Thanks for your astute observations. I'm grateful for the opportunity to kick this stuff around a bit more.

As to our point of view (flat images rather than being there in-person), I have to observe that real-life viewing is usually best for finding pleasurable agreement and photos are best for finding faults -- which is a good reason to critique our own trees in photos rather than merely by looking at them on the bench. C'est la vie! ;-)

Kind regards,
Andy Rutlege
b u n j i n | d e s i g n :: www.bunjindesign.com
zone 8, Texas