While I have taken quite a bit of flak and made some humerous references to the jousting match with Bone-sigh in the John Dixon thread, I still think hurricane battered trees may sometimes an inspiration but not a model.

If I were to make a statement like; "Nature is much uglier than beautiful" I would be taken to task in a heartbeat. There are those that would start equating the beauty that abounds in our National Parks and the beautiful seashore, and places like that. While there is beauty in most nearly every place we look, it is because we look at nature in a much larger picture than we think. An ugly, albeit dead tree when viewed against a carpet of wildflowers on a spring day and a bubbling stream nearby can be beautiful.

"It's beautiful in nature, but quite ordinary in a bonsai pot."

If we were to shrink the dead tree and remove all the other elements and place the dead snag in a bonsai pot and display it, I'm sure it would garner some pretty weird looks. Our eyes in an outdoor setting are able to take in such a huge piece of real estate, that we can bring in enough beautiful elements to make even the most ugly natural form seem beautiful.

Photo #22977 Click to Enlarge

In this picture the tree is ugly. This is an ugly tree. It is different, and unique, and when seen in its outdoor setting it somehow conjures up all sorts of adjectives.

We may see it as:

• Unimaginable
• Unique
• Unbelievable
• Remarkable
• Stately
• Powerful

But what if, we take this tree out of its natural setting and reduce it to bonsai proportions?

We may use those same adjectives, but now they have a totally different meaning. Might we use this tree as inspiration? Most definitely, yes! Would it retain the same features? Probably not. Could we use the same branches and trunk? The trunk: yes. The branches: some, but not all. Would we use the same crown? No, this crown is not artistic. It is haphazard, like Nature makes things. There is no order in the way nature grows plants. Thank God for the miracles of sports. Think Kingsville boxwood or Catlin elm.

A hurricane may come through and wipe out a couple thousand trees. Will there be inspiration among the ravages? Certainly. Will there be one that could be shrunken to fit a pot and be exhibited straight away? Probably not.

"If I were to make a statement like; "Nature is much uglier than beautiful" I would be taken to task in a heartbeat!"

My problem with the hurricane explanation was that it could be used to explain what might cause a tree to be styled in the way it was. Just because a tree is styled in a rather haphazard, stripped-of-branches fashion and its cousin can certainly be seen in a hurricane aftermath, that alone does not justify the reason.

The story you wish the tree to tell should be the story that the tree tells. It is not the story that you tell the viewers of the tree. I'm all for seeing a tree that I feel may have been the outcome of a hurricane, yet I have never actually seen a beautiful hurricane styled tree yet. Just don't try to justify a cr@ppy creation by trying to tell me that you've once seen a tree just like that in nature after the latest hurricane came through, so therefore this must be good.

One of the things that really sets me off is how people can justify almost anything in an exhibit by saying things like, " that reminds me of a tree down by a little water pool with a small patch of reeds and duck floating by".

Did the tree really tell you that, or are you telling me that to help convey a mental picture of a cr@ppy tree? I can justify anything if a someone paints a beautiful enough image for me. If the tree doesn't do that for me on its own, then it has fallen short. For me anyways.

OK so on to the pictures. I have taken the liberty to move the wonderful picture here from the other thread. Thanks to whoever supplied it, Pootsie, or Treebeard.

Photo #22978 Click to Enlarge

In this second photo I have removed all the other elements and reduced to bonsai status... even made it Literati in the appropriate pot. I think it clearly shows that all the impact of the natural setting is lost when reduced to bonsai. While this tree retains all the roughness of nature, it lacks the elements of harmony and balance that make bonsai good. There are branches that certainly need to be removed or corrected, and the canopy is totally wrong for a bonsai.

For me anyway, it's beautiful in nature, but quite ordinary in a bonsai pot.

While my virtual of a more stylized tree may not be to everyones taste, it is my point of view of trying to introduce a more ordered tree for display.

Photo #22982 Click to Enlarge

While I am sure there will be others that will like the tree placed in the pot as done in the above photo, there may be just as many that prefer it more sculpted. However it is displayed, I might venture a guess that something would be removed or added to this tree in any incarnation it may take on. There are just too many problem areas on the tree that would need attention to help convey a better form.

Does this tree provide inspiration? Certainly, yes.
Can this tree be improved? Obviously, yes.

But should it?

For comparison's sake

Photo #22978 Click to Enlarge

Photo #22982 Click to Enlarge

Best regards, Al

Attached Images

	pine.jpg (66.6 KB, 114 views)
	inpot.jpg (9.9 KB, 84 views)
	styled in pot.jpg (9.5 KB, 74 views)

__________________
Real men don't wear coats with "happi" in the title.

Dear Al, You should know and understand this, that you have the potential to become a novelist. I am in awe Ash

Does this not cleary show that bonsai is about inspiration rather than copying, which brings us right back to art.

Great observation Al!

OK Al, so you set the foliage.....the trunk line remains the same.

The beauty of this natural occurance is to fire the imagination, which for me this image certainly does. I can't see that a roundabout and white van add anything to the natural beauty of its surroundings.

You always seem to generate strong disccussion with your thought evoking views.

Al,
Once again.....My hurricane analogy was only to prove that your statement of "mainipulation by man" in regards to John's tree was wrong. Because I have seen similar in nature...that is after all where we get our inspiration. And, Inspiration is all I have ever been talking about in regards to hurricanes and such.

Let me bring this home for you...if I had never seen the way that cal. Junipers grow wild in the desert I might look at their bonsai cousin's and think that all that carving crap is manipulation by man...who is trying to be more artist than bonsai-ist. But because I have a reference point to the way the real trees grow and recover from the deserts forces it gives more validity to the bonsai creations.

Back to hurricane trees...no one ever said anything about directly using hurricane styled trees for bonsai and calling them a finished product. Maybe as a starting point, but not as the finished product. Just like you would never collect your cali junipers and leave them as is and say "look at my pretty bonsai!". You would refine what nature has started. And that is what I am talking about. Starting with what nature has inspired us with and developing it from there.

Good article Al, I understand a little better what you were trying to say in refuting my (poor?) attempt at explaining hurricane damaged trees as inspiration for bunjin. Your article could use some fine tuning but other than that it was pretty good.

All the best,
Ryan

"One of the things that really sets me off is how people can justify almost anything in an exhibit by saying things like, " that reminds me of a tree down by a little water pool with a small patch of reeds and duck floating by".

I think this is the kernel of what Al's getting at. Too often, the background of a design can become more important than the design itself. Strip away the "hurricane" styled tree adjectives and then look at how the bonsai works (or doesn't) Elaborate (sometimes cutesy) explanations like the one Al has mentioned here sometimes creep forward to explain away bad designs. If someone starts to explain a tree's design in details like "The the wind was coming off the lake into this side of the tree, then a moose pushed the tree into the wind and this branch got pushed to the side", then the design of a tree is probably bad or faulty. Sure a tree can tell a story, but those kinds of specifics in the story to explain design flaws shouldn't be necessary.

I think "Hurricane" styled stories can approach this kind of explanation. Hurricanes are simply big winds with alot of water. They do damage--wind damage. Wind damage affects trees all over the planet --even those well northtof Hurricane zones. Hurricanes have no more special artistic capabilities than a other storms, so why the special consideration?

A bonsai's design should speak in universal terms overall, even though local species and conditions may be used as models. California junipers, with all their shari and deadwood still speak to those who are unfamiliar with them in the wild. They become somewhat abstract natural sculptures.

al,

good article. i can understand where you are coming from and your point-of-view for saying what you have.

however, in my mind, i always thought that it was clear that natural hurricane styled trees should be used as a point of reference and not mimiced. in this point i agree with you.

i would also say, there are a lot of ugly junipers out there, and the same principles apply.

jeff

Good thoughts Al.

Of course no one here in their right mind would think that any tree in nature (with a few possible exceptions) could pull off the same natural beauty in a bonsai pot on a smaller scale with a totally different perspective, without modifications.

You first mentioned hurricane styled trees by saying, "BTW, I have not even vented about hurricane styled trees yet. We'll save that for when the thread slows down." In your misinformation thread in reference to a freshly collected tree I posted in "Wild Collecting 102." Which brings up a interesting point. The tree I showed was freshly collected, un-styled in any way, no wire and no branches removed at all. Jack pines on the sandy barrens here often grow in this style for some reason, all the branches arching toward one direction, trunk bent and showing signs of struggle. We do not have constant winds, hurricanes, or coastal storms but the Jacks seem to react anyhow, lol. They look quite wonderful in the environment they live in, but of course look silly once in a pot as most un-styled trees will. However I believe they make good stock for bunjin, cascades, and windswept styles.

Raw material, a blank canvas, a fresh granite block, are all the start of every piece of art ever created. Calling a fresh piece of stock styled or somehow inadequate because of the way it grew would be the same as calling a blank white piece of canvas in front of a painter poorly painted and condemning it for being too white. We all start with raw stock and throughout time, shape it into something that is pleasing to the eye in the confines of a bonsai pot.

I would dare to say that a well styled bonsai if taken back up to natural scale and planted where it was collected would seem as out of place as the reverse that you showed above.

In closing, we as artists take the raw stock and by careful thought make it look like an idealized tree in nature. An artist could tell the story of the tree you posted as an example in a much better way. Our bonsai tell the story better because we take away what is not part of the story and embellish the parts that are. We use less to say more. Our trees must resemble real trees or else they would not be bonsai, but yet we stretch the boundaries and use illusion to tell the tale. No Al, a tree as is in nature can not past the test in a bonsai pot but it certainly can be a guidepost.


Will

Al:

The picture is Treebeard's -- I just hotlinked it to the hurricance discussion.

Al, did you notice the tree's "natural setting" is a god-forsaken parking lot
There is no impact except for where the cars hit it!

But you make good points, of course. I did not toss that link into the discussion to assert that it should be potted as-is, although personally, I think that it could be. I'd love to hear Walter chime in on that!

But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, no? When you say nature is ugly, I say that is her greatest charm. Bonsai to me is as much about the sublime as the beautiful. So to me, a little ugly is nice now and again.

This could be the influence of my locale. I live in a place where the trees have a calm easy life, for the most part. They grow straight and tall and stately, spreading their massive limbs wide over open fields. Balanced, harmonious, even crowns. So, to me, the more extreme styling is a bit exotic and therefore attractive.

To each their own. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, as this is a good discussion to have. And - wow - everyone's been respectful so far.

2 cents,
pootsie

Good post, Al.

You clarify your expression of your thinking well.

Thank you.