Scratch or buy?

The subject of scratch bonsai is notorious in bonsai circles. If you haven’t seen the bonsai thru from its earliest beginnings then you haven’t created it nor are you an artist. Or are you? I firmly believe that a bonsai artist will have many bonsai in all phases of construction from nursery stock to collected stock. Somewhere in that mix will be the odd assortment of purchased semi finished trees.

Wisdom/Experience

As in life, with growth and experience comes wisdom. Wisdom tells us that the quickest way to a superb collection of great bonsai is to purchase stock that has most of the desirable attributes going for it from the get go. Many budding artist look at this approach as a cop out and a giving in to the fact that a person may have no bonsai skills. On the contrary, this idea just gives those willing to purchase desirable stock a significant advantage over those wishing to style bonsai from undesirable common nursery stock.

Life is short compared to that of a tree. Refusal to accept this philosophy only sets back the budding artist with the available years to bring out the real beauty in a piece of purchased material. While it may take ten or more years to move a nursery tree to the purchased stock point, and no guarantees, a purchased piece of stock might be show worthy in two or three years.

Finished tree, where’s the skill in that?

Those that feel no skill is required to keep up the already good attributes of a piece of purchased stock have never owned a good piece of material. It requires just as many of the same skills and just as much experience to keep up something already good as it does to get a piece of un-styled material to the same point. Pinching, pruning, repotting and watering all important skills that can be honed in a few years, and then reserved for the purchase of that great piece of material.

The Internet forum is a great place to showcase the abilities of a tree over time. Unlike a contest, which takes a crappy piece of material and accentuates it to a crappier piece of material, a purchased piece of stock can be showed to develop over a period of years thus showcasing the artists abilities. I am saddened that over a period of 6 years this forum is not able to produce trees that are more finished. That is a huge amount of time to not have at least two or three hundred trees of show quality to present on a yearly basis and see how each has improved.

Stigma born in the USA

In my searches over the Internet is seems that this stigma of “doing it yourself” seems to be concentrated in the USA. It surely is not born of Europe or Japan, two nations that buy and sell stock between artists quite freely and have no trouble showing this “borrowed” material in the latest exhibit. Somehow, we have gotten all caught up in this need to reference the grower and somehow pay tribute to them. Each preceding artist that worked on the stock becomes engrained in the history of the piece and I have no clue why this is necessary. If I purchase a tree from someone and they told me that this piece was originally started by XYZ, and I go on to remove a major branch and repot it into my own choice of pot, and maybe create some Jins and Shari, how does the original owner fit in after a significant change like that? At this point, the tree has been changed so much that the original soul of the artist is now removed. The tree now becomes mine and forever more it is mine to do with what I please.

Candy Shirey has some unique specimens from Nick Lenz. For the most part the compositions are the same as when she purchased them. In this way, Candy has immortalized the works of Nick Lenz for all of us to enjoy. If significant changes are made to them in a way the character and soul of Nick was lost, then the trees become the artistic renderings of Candy and I would say they could be shown as her own work. Why not? She did all the new work and erased what was.

The biggest challenge of all

Buying that prefect piece of material and now the challenge, to make something beautiful. It is not as easy as it sounds. The controversy over cookie cutter bonsai has taken bonsai to levels unknown. It is not enough to make a great traditional tree anymore. The tree must now be artistic, evocative, dramatic and exude a language all its own. This is the bar for bonsai today and it can’t be reached with a juniper from Walmart!

Good Shopping, Al Keppler

__________________
It's about time that the proper respect be given to the fine art of balloon animals...

Excellent editorial Al, I am of the same opinion. The only thing that you didn't say in a direct statement, is that when it all comes out in the wash, that it is ultimately about the tree. Be it a finished piece or a or work in progress.
Not who styled it, not who at one time owned it. I have seen to many ego's ruin a great tree or even still ruin a pleasant viewing. The tree first, the artist second.

It requires just as many of the same skills and just as much experience to keep up something already good as it does to get a piece of un-styled material to the same point.

Well I for one like to think this is not true and even a bid unlogical. But hey....that's just my professional opinion!
Hans.

"I am saddened that over a period of 6 years this forum is not able to produce trees that are more finished. That is a huge amount of time to not have at least two or three hundred trees of show quality to present on a yearly basis and see how each has improved."__Al Keppler

I wouldn't let it sadden you too much.How many of the same people from 6 years ago are still here?And how many of the people here now are relative beginners?It is a relatively transient group that participate here.And....there actually are quite a few nice trees posted in show and tell and in the gallery.There is a lot of other stuff to wade through though.

No matter what the original goals for bonsaiTalk were....it has become a "club" as opposed to a study group or association.It has the same mix of experience and talent levels as local clubs.That is not a bad thing.Just different than some others.bonsaiTalk is welcoming,open, and congenial for the most part.Maybe not the best atmosphere for developing great bonsai....but a great one for developing friendships.

Other than that....I agree with you wholeheartedly .

And Hans....I think Al is correct in saying that it takes many of the same skills(even more skill)along with correct timing to maintain a tree at a show quality level.It just doesn't take the initial artistic vision.

andy

Mr. Al,
Once again you make some very good points with your editorial, and please "keep em' coming"...This one as always is quite thought provoking...I do however have an issue with the continued references to "purchased stock" being touted as the 'only or best' way...Does this mean those of us which do not have the 'financial means' to "buy" this finished or nearly finished material will never be considered as 'artists'?...I fully realize that to many in the 'political' world of bonsai this is true...But then it has always been that way in the world of 'art politics'...Many artists in other media have only been recognized as 'artists' after their death, due in part because, they did not have the financial means to play the 'political games'...I certainly do agree though, IF one has the ability to 'buy' one's way into the 'world of bonsai art' it is a much quicker route to take...Therefore IF one has the means to purchase finished or nearly finished material they should certainly do so without any attached 'stigma' of it being their own or not...I am reminded of recording artist Rickey Nelson...He didn't write the song "Hello Mary Lou" nor was he the first to record it, however he did make the song his own, and did record the most popular and best selling rendition...I can't help but wonder though, if the fact he was part of the 'industry politics' due to being one of the star performers on the weekly TV show 'Ozzie and Harriet', had a little something to do with it...


Could it be that the majority of those participating in this forum do not have the financial means to purchase their way into 'bonsai stardom'?...Some may even participate here because they cannot afford private lessons, books, magazine subscriptions, etc....Therefore they take advantage of at least one source of information that is available to most households in America...The internet...Much thanks goes to you by the way for so freely sharing information through the years here on the forum...It has certainly been very valuable to me for one...

Thanks for the thoughts, and please do not take this as being argumentative of your editorial...I in fact fully agree with the majority of what you have written...But I also realize this is not a 'doable' for all forum members, and wish to point things out from a different perspective...

Regards
Behr

This is the exact type sentance I would expect to hear in America. Whether tongue in cheek or not, thats the prevailing attitude when it comes to buying a more finished tree. We keep telling people this over and over with out rhetoric and people start believing that if they haven't fashioned their bonsai from scratch then they are somehow lacking in skills. "That person wins all the ribbons but he/she didn't make any of their trees". How many times have any of you heard that at a club show. They still have trees maybe many years in their care and they still are worthy of first place, that says something for the caretaker. They know what their doing. Why must we judge what others have found to be the easiest way to get to better trees?



Not at all. I am not so naive that I think good bonsai could not be fashioned from nursery material. On the contrary, there have been many examples of very good bonsai done here at bonsaiTALK during contests and many forum members. We know and I know that there is stock out there lurking in nurseries that is wonderful. They are just far and few between and being there at the right moment has much to do with it.



This editorial was not written for someone with fifty bucks a year to spend on bonsai. Bonsai is an expensive hobby and I am not advocating this as the only way to do it justice. Just one way. The way "I" see it. Those less fortunate with discretionary funds to spend on bonsai will always be on the outside looking in if they wish to have a nice collection. Nature of the beast. I wish to drive a Porsche too, but I have pretty much settled on the fact that it will never come to be, so why worry about it.



Yes, I think you are right.



I think you need to read it again one more time. I think you lost something in the language barrier. Please don't tell me you buy all your stock at Walmart!

At the time I posted this I wished to come back and write an edit. I decided I would wait and see what I got in the way of responses. I might like to add it now. Buying stock does not have to mean spending two thousand dollars to get something worthy. When I say spend the money on something more finished that can mean something different for alot of people. For me it means buying trunk girth, taper, branch placement and health. For others it may mean buying a juniper that someone with more experience than them decided was not fun anymore and wished to put it on the raffle table or auction it during a club Xmas party. The point is, work will have been done to the tree moving it more from nursery material to potential bonsai. Maybe not world class material but certainly better than a juniper from Monrovia.

I see more and more people every day relateing their experiences on digging stock from homes and gardens. This is a good thing. People have reasoned that it may be better to get something a little larger and with more choices than always making a cascade or windswept juniper.

Cheers, Al

G'day Al Ed the VIII...

Nicely said...very well done...

Food for thought...like a well done juicy steak!

Pat

Bonsaial said:
It requires just as many of the same skills and just as much experience to keep up something already good as it does to get a piece of un-styled material to the same point.


I replied:
Well I for one like to think this is not true and even a bid unlogical. But hey....that's just my professional opinion!
Hans.

I know it was a short answer, but is was very late! So let me try to explain using your own examples.


Bonsaial :
The Internet forum is a great place to showcase the abilities of a tree over time. Unlike a contest, which takes a crappy piece of material and accentuates it to a crappier piece of material, a purchased piece of stock can be showed to develop over a period of years thus showcasing the artists abilities. I am saddened that over a period of 6 years this forum is not able to produce trees that are more finished. That is a huge amount of time to not have at least two or three hundred trees of show quality to present on a yearly basis and see how each has improved.

Hans:
Al, isn't the above proof that to make or keep a good bonsai, U need a bid more than experience and skills. And U are only revering here, to show quality bonsai. What about real top bonsai?

Bonsaial said:

In my searches over the Internet is seems that this stigma of “doing it yourself” seems to be concentrated in the USA. It surely is not born of Europe or Japan, two nations that buy and sell stock between artists quite freely and have no trouble showing this “borrowed” material in the latest exhibit.

Hans:
Although it might seams to be this way in Europe to most people in the US, it those not mean that all of the people over here with good bonsai or pros agree or approve with this aprouge to bonsai. And it those surtenly not mean we don't know the difference between a originally styled or prefab bonsai. The necessity for buying good material, to create good bonsai is almost becoming a myth, that is kept alive by people that practise bonsai themselves this way, or by the fenders that need to make there living from these imported trees. Our aim should be to learn how to create a bonsai, not how to buy a prefab one and then maintain it. I for one, am in favor of dividing showed top bonsai in at least 2 different sections. The Japanese imported bonsai or in traditional Japanese styled bonsai, and the free styled Yamadori bonsai. It is up to the bonsai artist to desite were he wants his tree to be showed. Than it is up to the public or judges to decide if they go for that all important tree (that I'm constantly reminded of here), rather than looking at the talent of the artist, even if it is a pre fab imported bonsai that is bought some times even just a few months earlier, or go for the bonsai that was styled from scratch, over the course of many years. The first one i mentioned will most likely win (that's why they are bought in the first place). But I decided a long time ago that as a artist I rather belong into the later category! And with me there are many others who feel this way. If you keep on telling people that bonsai art is all about showing the best possible tree, no matter what. We will be having this same conversation in 6 years time. If you teach people how to recognize a bonsai and how to make the best possible one out of any kind of material, they can later on in there bonsai live decide for themselves to which category the want to belong or go with both ways. Don't tel me that Bonsai is the only art form were only the end result counts, don't kill creativity or suffocate talent with old believes or hollow oriental frases. Restyling is not the same as styling, no matter what they try to make you believe.
regards,
hans.

Hans,

Very good post.

Bonsai is like traveling for pleasure.

Some people like to travel in uncharted territories, they rent a car or hitchhike, they are looking for the unexpected and for adventure. They go to wild places and stay away from "touristy" spots. For them, the journey is just as important (if not more), than the destination. This is where you Hans belong: wild yamadori. And you are a master in doing it.

Other people like to take cruises, or pay for a packaged tour, and stay in 5-star hotels. They like comfort, they have the money, and they don't like unpredictable things. If they want to see Venice, they don't care about the journey, they want to get there in the fastest and easiest way. I compare this to buying pre-styled, or finished bonsai.

I think both ways are wonderful, and one can achieve a lot by doing either way. Both require a lot of skill, if done at the highest level. But the first one requires a little more creativity and vision than the second one.

Buying a cheap Walmart plant is neither of the above. It is the hardest way, and with the least chance to ever create a top tree. I agree with Al that one should try to go this way as seldom as one can. When I started bonsai, I didn't know about this, there was nobody to teach me better. So, I've spend the first 10 years just raising acceptable stock from cheap one. Now is too late to do anything about it, I've managed to create some good stock from nothing, and they are too good to discard them. But I wish someone told me at the beginning that this is the most tedious way of doing bonsai.

But there are some lessons to learn from growing bonsai using really young stock, so I recommend to have a few of these projects even to those who are wise enough to deal only with old material that has a lot of character. Not too many, just a few. These lessons are really valuable, and cannot be learned from books, but from experience. When growing bonsai from young stock, we can see how trees grow and change as they become older. This is very helpful even to those who practice bonsai at a very advanced level.

Somehow a few here seem to think I am advocateing buying finished trees and keeping them the way you bought them. Maybe I am poor at writing because that is not what I am talking about here at all.

What I am saying is that there is a faster way to get better bonsai. Buy a tree that is semi finished and continue to work on it till it is the best you can make it. Maybe someone else in a few years will take it even further. That is all.

I feel that experience far outgrows the trees ability to keep up. What seems good today will not be good in three years. Don't waste time with this material. Sell it off and find newer, better material to work with. Hans, Hopefully when you read this you will understand better where I am coming from. I still think you are trying to make this too black and white.

Atilla, I hope you read the parts where I feel most people will have bonsai in all phases of construction, and yes I look at the gardening nurseries when I am there

Nice thing about an editorial, I don't have an overwhelming desire to have anybody see my way as the only way, it's just my way. Feel free to do it any way you wish.

Happy bonsai, Al