I would bet that the overwhelming number of people in bonsai are like this. They want to encourage and not just tear apart. We look at the whole picture and not simply at the picture frame
We are the silent majority. Pity we are not more vocal.

Andy, you elistist jerk!

You made me spit my morning coffee all over my keyboard. I haven't laughed so hard in days.

I personally find it a bloody shame that people get so touchy because as a consequence, posters hold back when I present a picture of my trees. And I honestly want to know what is wrong with my trees, so I can fix them, or chuck them, or whatever. Bonsai is a slow enough process, and my life is a finite enough entity, that I don't have time to waste a half a decade by not changing some tree just because I want to think that I own a "specimen bonsai."

I've said this before, but I really benefitted from the comments I got on my tree when I posted it for a faux auction. That somehow broke the taboo against calling crap "crap", and as a result, I (1) learned a lot, and (2) completely restyled the tree with the long-term in mind.

Best regards,
Carl

Well, OK; lot's of good points made. There's plenty to fault (as Andy and others have pointed out) on both sides of the "evaluation divide". It's sometimes easy to forget that not only those receiving criticism but those providing it like to be treated like human beings.

In many of his comments, including those on other threads, Ron Martin has pointed out that, in his experience, the majority of people around bonsai are really quite nice. As I thought about that, I had to agree. Yet, among those that are most vociferous, many are not so nice. Both amongst those who give and who receive criticism. I wonder why that is? I know I like to be treated like a human being and felt embarrsed when I have been stung into intemperate comments. I hate to think that at 65 I still have some growing up to do, but so it would appear!

Fred

One of the reasons that I am content to read this forum and only this forum when it comes to bonsai, is the level of civility that you all seem to have with each other. And with the amount of expertise available to me on this forum, I really don't see the need to browse elsewhere.

Every lengthy critique I've seen so far has started with compliments either about the trees current state or the tree's potential. However it is most often followed by many constructive points and virtuals. Basically if a tree is crap, expect it to be a very short thread.

I think most of you have found a good balance between brash criticism and constructive critique.

Cheers
Mittar

::edit:: Whao! when did I become a journeyman? I'm still a rank beginner!

I think that one of the things that one has to understand is also how to accept criticism of one's tree. When you ask someone "What do you think of this tree?" what you will receive is an opinion. This opinion may be right, it MAY be wrong, (it may be also neither or both).

One of the things that I am always saying in our work group here in response to advice is "I'll think about it"

As a group Bonsai Barbados members thrive on offering opinions (whether asked for or not) on other members trees. When I say "I'll think about it" it generally means one of two things.

1. I disagree with your opinion (even though it may be artistically valid (whatever that means)) and will disregard it.

or (more usually)

2. I hadn't considered that option, but I will see how it fits with my long term plan for the tree and I may or may not follow your advice.

Sometimes, after some thought I will decide that my plan is right and the advice doesn't advance that plan. It may be valid but it may not be the way I want to go forward.

Other times after much thought I will accept the advice and act on it.

In either case I am not offended by the persons opinion, and they are not offended by my decision to disregard it (if I do) or my failing to implement it immediately.

My point being that if you ask for an opinion you will get an opinion. Don't take that opinion as a rejection of yourself if you don't like it.

The tree remains yours to cut or not. But if you aren't going to at least give that opinion serious consideration, why do bother to ask for it in the first place?

If you've offered an opinion on a tree, no matter how well informed you believe you are, accept that what you are offering is just an opinion and not gospel, and that other people may disagree.

Just my two cents....

Zowie! How many times have I said that?

Al

Zowie! How many times have I said that?

Chris

And never forget that in this forum your opinion is based on a PICTURE of a tree.
From my own experience, in many cases, to give an honest opinion, several pictures form few angles are needed, and even than they are still pictures.

It depens on how you word your comments too, and the intention behind them.

Say someone posts a 1/4' trunk sugar maple.

You could say: that won't make good bonsai material but it's good for practice and learning how trees respond to bonsai training.

Or you could say: that's a piece of trash. Throw it away and buy a real bonsai.!

I break those questions down into two categories. The first is opinion. Everyone should feel free to say they like or don't like a particular tree for what ever reason. Most people won't have a problem with that. In fact, they usually know that their trees are greatly lacking when compared with good bonsai but they are not able yet to grasp the concept of what makes good bonsai.

The second is like Ron said: Look the person in the eye and find out what they expect from this tree. Well we can't do this on a bonsai forum but you can gain alot of insight by reading the post carefully and asking a few questions. Then I'll try to help them make the best bonsai possible with what they are working with. It's not a SIN afterall. Most bonsai will never be looked at as "good bonsai" but people have fun working with them, so what to heck. It will dawn on them in "their own time" that they can and should do better.

I have a different take on learning bonsai than most of you guys. It's not books or shows or contests that makes you a better bonsai grower. It all comes down to hands on experience and whatcha gonna do with that tree in your backyard. You'll learn most bonsai techniques on your own given time. And you'll damn sure remember them better than if you read them in a book. The way I look at, answering these questions on bonsai forums is to help them along in the path that they have chosen. If it's the wrong path they'll figure it out soon enough.

Tony

Any critique should have a stated justification for the suggestions offered. Saying "cut off the left branch" without stating why is pretty much useless to the person trying to learn something from the exchange.

David