A comment by HB Smith in another thread (see here) has got me thinking.

in the other post, howard said: In response to that comment, I wonder how 'old school' proponents see bonsai evolving in the future... if at all?

I ask out of plain curiosity, that's all.

Regards,

TB/Chris.

As for quality bonsai (the best examples in the world), I think they've hit the end of the road for refinement and design. All that is left for further refinement, IMO, will come through the discovery/creation/modification of new techniques that might make some more evocative forms possible.

As for bonsai in the U.S., have a look at Japanese bonsai in the late 1800's. That's where I think the general future of American bonsai lies.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas

I can still never tell for sure when Andy's joking!

No joking here. Look at our growing Western fascination with "naturalistic" looking bonsai and the lack of interest in artistic display. The logical conclusion for this is the relatively unstyled forms of the late 1800's in Japan. Bonsai design and presentation has changed a great deal since then, but as in nearly every other endeavor, we have here in bonsai a "regressive" tendency. I'm not saying that we're making sorry bonsai - just that there seems to be a premature tendency toward the "what's old is new again" approach.

Seriously, can you look at the highly refined forms and believe that there is any way to go but backward? Of course, here in the U.S. most will never know how to get to the highly refined forms and there is already a large movement toward "unstyled" bonsai. My conclusion is not so far fetched, is it?

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas

I guess it depends on what the definition of naturalistic is.
I thought the old japanese school and the naturalistic style were one in the same. I always thought you had to strive for naturalness.
Most of the older bonsai people I know tend to incline to the more naturalistic style(I mean they tend to be less aggressive in the styling). But I think even the wilder compositions need a dash of naturalness too in order to pull it off.
You dont want to show a predominantly driftwood style tree with the whole top full of moss resembling a golf course.

bonsai = an artistic impression of a tree in nature, growing in a pot -- it's the artistic impression part we shoud be striving for -- if that impression includes nature perfected by design -- what's bad?

Andy,
Where do you get the idea that there is a growing western obsession with more naturalistic styles?

From what I have seen of the bonsai in Europe (the Ginkgo exhibition, for example) the opposite is true. There are a lot of Americans who make do with unrefined trees for whatever reason, if that's what you mean, and that ain't good.

You should be encouraging them to follow the European lead instead of following them into bonsai obscurity.

Thanks Andy et al, interesting thoughts.

I would refer posters to another recently started thread...

the zen of thread hijacking

(or should that be the zen of topic hijacking)

it has a much snazzier title than mine , even though the questions asked are pretty much the same . Probably best to carry on the discussion there...

Regards,

TB

I closed off this thread so we can take up there as Treebeard suggests.