I think most folks who have been doing bonsai for awhile simply internalize these two concepts and don't really talk about them--they aren't the easiest things to explain. It, unfortunately, becomes one of those things that people have to "get" over time.

The history of these views has interesting history in Japan, but also has some correlation in the west. The appreciation of spareness and starkness in the West isn't as well defined as it is in Japan, but it's been here for some time too.

I agree with what you say, Rockm. A Japanese teacher will likely say nothing beyond, "no, this is not right." or "see how this one is better?" In this case, it is up to the student to try and grasp why this one is not right and this one is better.

I also believe that this sort of thing is not best approached in a book or in a discussion forum - as far as working to help others understand elements of how to apply such concepts to their work. If you saw my web-book, you will notice that I do not directly address wabi/sabi. Part of this is because unlike most conventions of artistry, wabi/sabi is something that is achieved differently in each case, from tree to tree - from display to display. Trying to cover the myriad ways of introducing such qualities into bonsai composition or display composition would be nigh on to impossible. Also, I'm just a student and am still working to try and be successful at such things. I don't want to mislead anyone by mistake.

I hope that more of us become interested in such things and find skilled and talented teachers from which to absorb this sort of know-how.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm
zone 8, Texas

To help with the meaning of wabi and sabi, it would be useful to have examples, maybe from our gallery demonstrating these concepts. I can take what I have learned from here, and my looking up the defintions, then go look at bonsai, but am I really getting it? I saw an incredible black pine at Andy's lecture last week, and to me it had wabi-sabi. Whenever I think about Asian art of any kind, I look for zen like minimalism, for a deeper story than what my eye physically sees. Really it is similar to how I interpret western art as well. For example, I can see the pain and torture in the brush strokes of a Van Gogh, I want to know more about the inspiration and the story behind the picture.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, wabi/sabi is elusive when it comes to offering definitions or concrete examples. It's a little like saying why a particular tie "works" with a particular shirt. You can offer all kinds of "color wheel" reasons and reasoned explanations, but in the end "it just looks right."

Gosh! What an interesting discussion!

I find myself wondering whether my initial thought was my own poor way of trying to get closer to wabi.

Fred

Ralph,

Yes, there are images of bonsai and other arts that rather plainly exhibit the qualities of wabi/sabi. However, most I've found are copyrighted works from publications and can't be posted here. I'll work to find some examples to post here. That sort of endeavor - looking at good examples of these qualities - IS a good way to learn about the concepts. Yours is an excellent request.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm
zone 8, Texas

One thing I've learned about this topic is that alot can get lost in photos, especially online photos. Although photos can convey alot, sometimes a tree's "wabi/sabi" has to be seen in-person to get the full impact.

I think this has alot to do with photos only being two dimension and "squishing" a tree into a frame. That forces alot of the nuance that artists aim for out of the composition.

In short, get thee to as many bonsai exhibits (pacific rim, National Arboretum, Kokufu, etc.) as you can. The more good and great trees you see in person, the better able one becomes at recognizing some of the intangible aspects they soemtimes embody.

In discussing this concept, I think is worth mentioning that an important quatity of W/S is it's spontaneous nature.

The small irregularity in the glaze of a pot, or the edges of an antique table rounded and polished from consant usage, the fallen leaf on the moss at the base of the tree, or the broken branch of an old cherry tree, all happened spontaneously. It can be hidden in the quality of material we are working with.
So, sometimes all we have to do is to discover the W/S quality, notice it, take away the clutter, and preserve it to be seen by others. We can always strive for it and keep it in the back of our mind when creating a bonsai, but trying too hard to achieve it can have the reverse effect (like trying to be happy too hard).
The good news about this is that there are no specific rules to achieve it. The bad news is that it may take a lot of sensitivity from the viewer to discover it.

(and yes, this IS part of the japanese tradition, not because they invented it, but because it is at the core of the japanese esthetics ---- while in the western culture it may be superficially called "rustic", a term that merely scratches the surface, if not missing the entire point)

As Andy implied it at the beginning of this thread (God bless you), this may be the mystique about the bonsai that should not be taken away. It should remain the "mistery unsolved", forcing the viewer to come back over and over again, craving for more.

Sometimes discussion forums are fun,
Attila

A very interesting point "demystifying bonsai" is just what I set out to do 7 years ago when I began teaching classes in Florida.
The reason I tell all my students was because a bonsai store owner made believe that the art of bonsai was some mystical art from the orient that only a few priveleged beings were allowed to know the inside story of how to do it.

Since I began teaching I begin the class by letting the students know that they too can do this thing called bonsai and that it is not the mystery it has been purported to be.

I think that some people have been scared away from bonsai by that misnomer.

I often remember a picture from the old Brooklyn Botanical Gardens Bonsai pamphlet, of the benches of a "traditional" Japanese grower. All pines, all upright or slanting, straight tall trees of quiet dignity. While I much admire, and own, trees of some drama, I find myself most often drawn to "old friends", traditional shapes with simple stories, a little split in the bark, some lichen, a sense of time. Is it that the tree must appear comfortable in itself, so that we may draw comfort from it?