Don't beat around the bush Bonsiakc...what are you really trying to say lol. I do mostly agree with you. I am happy to say, however, that all the demonstrations I have seen, have been things like alternative wiring techniques or almost finished bonsai. Bonsai being in need of a little help or needed to be pointed in a different direction. Relating to future styling.

When the masters do this, it is truly awesome most of the time, but they are masters. I agree with you about how the new people probably wouldn't get much out of this. This is simply because you obviously need horticultural, artistic and exact pruning skills for the species. You can watch a master make a nice bonsai out of a juniper, for example. However, I bet, if you give a very similiar in form nursery stock juniper to the newbie after watching the demonstration. Chances are, he will not even know where to begin.

Actually I am looking for more than one bonsai artist to visit SC. Anyone interested. It is a paying job.......

G'day Chris, Brian and all...

Thank you Chris for starting this thread. However, I think that demos do provide a good vehicle for introducing new people to bonsai...with some significant changes.

B'gone with the chop, front, branch, wire, pot...bad news.

And, Brian, as I was reading Chris's initial post, I was thinking about the multiple tree concept that you set forth.

I would propose to use three gallon size nursery stock...such as the J. Garden Juniper. At the first demo provide your Demo Master with 2 trees...1 and 2. Have your DM clean up 2, and set it aside. Then the DM cleans up 1, and continues with the initial trimming.

Next demo...provide 1 additional tree...3. Have your DM clean up 3, and set it aside. Then the DM continues with the initial trimming of tree 2. The DM then takes tree 1 to the next stage.

Next demo...provide 1 additional tree...4. Have your DM clean up 4, and set it aside. Then the DM continues with the initial trimming of tree 3. The DM then takes trees 2 and 1 to the next stage.

Next demo...provide 1 additional tree...5. Have your DM clean up 5, and set it aside. Then the DM continues with the initial trimming of tree 4. The DM then takes trees 3, 2 and 1 to the next stage.

You now have 5 bonsai wannabees. The oldest is 1, and the newest is 5.

And so on, and on, and on...

At some point, you will want to do root work, repot into a training pot, and repot into a bonsai pot.

The style of each bonsai is determined by the DM at the initial trimming. Each one can be a different style...or not.

This concept can be used at shows, or club meeting demos, or even adapted to a series of workshops.

Try using the bonsai wannabees in an educational display.

I have done this for an educational display with nursery stock,
first trim and next stage, 1 year apart. Followed by three more that stretched out to twentysomething years old. This same display was also used in beginning classes.

It worked for me...

Pat

"However, I bet, if you give a very similiar in form nursery stock juniper to the newbie after watching the demonstration. Chances are, he will not even know where to begin."

I'd bet you're wrong. Seeing a demo, I think, can show newbies exactly where to start. Did with me.

The very concept of cutting a large tree down to a bonsai is a very very foreign thought for those starting out. They usually are of the impression that you have to grown those teeny bonsai into larger bonsai. Understanding the concept of "cutting down" can be revolutionary. So what if the initial tree a new person tries it on kicks off...Ya gotta break some eggs...Demos can supply the egg beater for some.

Hmmmm....
KC, I mostly disagree with you, except for the "Contest" part which are mostly truly "Personality contests".
But, I can't begin to tell you how much I've learned watching demos over the last 28 years whether its at a conventio with a STAR or at a local meeting with a "peer". Dito with workshops.
I think you have either taken too short a view, or , possibly, don't really have that much experience in watching demos ( or doing them). BTW, I KNOW you work with Boon, but I'm wondering if this is your only exposure?
Over the years, I've seen great demos, ok demos, demos by "unknowns" that I thought were great, and demos by "Stars" that I thought sucked. Ditto with workshops. I've seen trees that had NO CHANCE to survive but wonderful techniques were shown WITH THE UNDERSTANDING, to me at least, that these were to be "time-elapsed" techniques! and, I've seen demos on trees well established , like mine, that I KNOW will do great for years unless the new owner does something dumb.
I've been on both sides of this fence and have found my own way of doing things through experience in watching demos.( In fact, due to the timing of this thread I'm wondering if it was prompted by Bob O's thread on my visit to Hampton?)
One thing I CAN say, after all thee years, is that after watching a great stylist...I can't wait to get home and dive in!
I have always said, you can't learn bonsai from a talk-group, or books or a local club or by yourself! You need to attend conventions/symposiums and you need to study with folks where thats all you do is work on trees whether it's with a wordly-master, local master or a study group. Working WITH or WATCHING someone who knows what he/she is DOING..and then doing it yourself....is the way to learn bonsai.
Dale

BTW, Ron, I'm free....well, not really "free"

Sure Ron, oh wait do we have to be experienced artists?

Chris,
I'm going to guess you haven't seen many demos. Just a guess, don't take offense. I've seen Kimura, Suzuki, Pall, and yes, even Boon do demos. Were they all the same? Nope. Some were workshops, and some were more assessment periods, and others were standard demos. I watched a demo at the Yamato show this weekend, and it was potted, and everything, all in one day. It's fall here, and it was done correctly. Johnny Uchida knows what he's doing. He had a tree he had started from seed, and it had been worked on somewhat through those 20 years, I'm sure. He explained to the crowd with the help of the two new senseis for the club, everything he was doing as he did it. He made sure and pointed things out for them to tell everyone. I would guess there were somewhere close to 80 people there, and there were some great questions flying. I believe that is where demos excel. They create interest, yes, and generate new members to clubs, but they also teach, and I have to say I have learned something at just about every one. I'm spoiled, I live in the Bay Area, and I know it. And guess what? I TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT!!!! Free lesson-SCORE!!!! I have seen and heard so many things you could only learn in an intensive, for example. Sure, it's not all day, it might be just one point that I take home, but I take it home. As for the chop and pot it up, I really haven't seen that done too much. One of the first demos I saw was a few years back at the EBBS show, in Oakland. It was a member workshop, and Boon was presiding. I watched him talk to a member about her tree, discuss with her what option she would have if left on present track, and have her decide that she wanted to head towards his proposed option. He asked her if she was ready, and when she nodded, he whacked three big branches off. Now, at the time, I understood what he was doing, as a silent observer, but what about a new person, interested in bonsai? If they hadn't heard him talking to her, and he wasn't really talking too loud, and then seen him take those cuts, leaving branches on the table, it would stun someone. Heck, it kinda stunnned the lady who's tree he did it to. She understood, though.
So, in closing, if a demo is done and done correctly, keep em. Great teaching tool, great membership rallier. I know, they don't do them in Japan, but they do them here. It's not conventional, but for me, they work.

Scott

Is there any other kind !!

Heck yea!!! PM me...

Nicely stated...