![]() |
|
||
|
Copying The Japanese II
|
||
| Comments | ||
| Make a comment on this article |
|
#2
by
Adam_MA
on
21-Oct-2003
|
|
Andy,
As always your post is well thought out and well stated, with a big ol' heaping helping of eloquence thrown in to deliver your statement. I first want to thank you for these articles we are fortunate enough to have the pleasure of reading. Second I would like to ask you something. In your post you said "I’m just saying that too many of us have no inclination to learn about this stuff and are putting too much stock in the erroneous musings of others – then blindly joining their parade" I do have the desire to learn as much as I can and was wondering if you be so kind as to give me some ideas of books that would help? I already have a growing library of bonsai books and would like to get the best bang for my buck with my next purchase. Thank you, Adam |
|
#3
by
K.A. Rutledge
on
21-Oct-2003
|
|
Adam,
Great! Now, don't buy another bonsai book. Instead, buy (or check out from the library) books on landscape painting and the techniques of art/painting composition. There are lots available and these kinds of things will help you to learn about the techniques of artistry. After you've gone through them a time or two, go back to your bonsai books and you'll be amazed at the simplicity and importance of the principles that most of them touch upon for bonsai formation and display. Oh, but if you do get another bonsai book, get Dave DeGroot's "Basic Bonsai Design." You can get it through the ABS website www.absbonsai.org . It's cheap (like $12 or something). Thanks for giving this stuff a chance. Kind regards, And Rutledge zone 8, Texas |
|
#5
by
FredL
on
21-Oct-2003
|
|
Andy, I always enjoy your posts. This one is no exception.
I imagine you noticed my assertion in another thread to the effect that Bonsai, at least in the past, occupied a slightly different place within Japanese culture than Western Art does within ours. I find myself wodering what your thoughts are regarding that comment. Also, whether you think Bonsai is becoming increasingly irrelevant to the "New Japanese". And whether Bonsai will ever become as relvant to our culture as other forms of secular art. Best regards, Fred |
|
#6
by
David Yedwab
on
21-Oct-2003
|
|
AndY:
|
|
#7
by
David Yedwab
on
21-Oct-2003
|
|
Andy:
Sorry, my fingers are getting fatter, or at least clumsier, if possible. I'm sure many of us agree with you that bonsai is an art and you must understand several art principles to create and display anything properly. However, I'm afraid if we convince the bonsai likers that one must be very articitcally inclined to even begin, we'll chase many away. This art thing is also interesting given that so many of us have technical training, especially in engineering and sceince. Why then bonsai? |
|
#8
by
K.A. Rutledge
on
21-Oct-2003
|
|
David,
"However, I'm afraid if we convince the bonsai likers that one must be very articitcally inclined to even begin, we'll chase many away." I agree. However, it was/is never my intention to suggest that one has to be an expert on things from the start. We're all here learning, even the most competent among us. We all start with a relatively low level of understanding and ability and have to progress at whatever rate we choose/can. What I suggest, in this essay and in many posts, is that while we don't yet have a firm grasp on all of the aspects of artistry and/or bonsai we don't have any business proclaiming what is right or wrong or effective or ineffective or appropriate or inappropriate or artistic or unartistic, etc... because we invariably get it wrong because we have no idea what we're talking about. When such proclamations are spouted as fact and other beginners among us believe us, we harm our endeavor (and many more besides). you write: "This art thing is also interesting given that so many of us have technical training, especially in engineering and sceince. Why then bonsai?" I'm sorry, but I can't tell what you're asking here. Can you elaborate? Thanks. Kind regards Andy Rutledge zone 8, Texas |
|
#9
by
K.A. Rutledge
on
21-Oct-2003
|
|
Hi Fred,
you ask: "I imagine you noticed my assertion in another thread to the effect that Bonsai, at least in the past, occupied a slightly different place within Japanese culture than Western Art does within ours. I find myself wodering what your thoughts are regarding that comment." Yes, I did see that. I'm not sure that it is accurate. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I have to believe that bonsai occupied exactly the same place in the culture and society as, say, paintings did/do in Western society - and still does. It is an elite thing, available mostly to the wealthy (the best examples of bonsai/art) and dabbled in by many of all sorts of economic backgrounds. It is something that is held cheaply by the lower and middle classes and regarded - and displayed accordingly - highly by the upper classes. I can cite no study to confirm my observations, but that's what I believe anyway. "Also, whether you think Bonsai is becoming increasingly irrelevant to the "New Japanese". And whether Bonsai will ever become as relvant to our culture as other forms of secular art." On both counts, not at all. In Japan, today as always, the large proportion of citizens has no interest in bonsai. Nothing wrong with that. As for bonsai becoming relevant or even important in the Western culture as has other art forms, no way. It is not something that the West generally regards as art - just as David DeGroot stated when I interviewed him - bonsai as art is about as obscure as driftwood collecting as art. It's not that it's culturally different, but that it is percived to be foreign; it is percieved by the Western world to be "other-worldly," and so will always be a curiosity and regarded as outside the realm of our culture. That's no problem as far as I'm concerned. Most art forms are very insular and important only to those who participate - or who can afford to decorate their lives with it. The more it costs, the better it is to decroate your life with, and, the more exclusive it will be - which makes it all the more enticing (to a very small number if individuals). Kind regards, Andy Rutledge zone 8, Texas |
|
#10
by
David Yedwab
on
21-Oct-2003
|
|
What I suggest, in this essay and in many posts, is that while we don't yet have a firm grasp on all of the aspects of artistry and/or bonsai we don't have any business proclaiming what is right or wrong or effective or ineffective or appropriate or inappropriate or artistic or unartistic, etc... because we invariably get it wrong because we have no idea what we're talking about. When such proclamations are spouted as fact and other beginners among us believe us, we harm our endeavor (and many more besides).
on the above, I absolutely agree with you. Maybe if we all use the internet IMHO, even if we aren't so humble, the rest will understand that it's just another "learner's" opinion -- not carved on a tablet. Regarding the technical backgrounds of many of us, I have just found it very intereting that many of us with technical training seem to have gravitated to an art formnot truly mainstream, perhaps we thought it was a craft to be learned, not an art from best mastered by apprenticing. Or some other weird coupling of art and science - horticulture and miniaturization of nature in artful ways? |
![]() |
| Article Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| Japanese Elm | kvnharv29 | Species Specific | 7 | 11-Jul-2007 03:10 AM |
| Glossary - Bonsai Terms & Japanese | TreeBay | bonsaiTALK FAQ | 2 | 6-Jun-2005 09:20 PM |
| Does Anybody Read Japanese? I Need Identification Of Tree On A Japanese Site! | bonsaibeginner | Species Specific | 5 | 28-Apr-2004 12:52 PM |
| The Zen Of Thread Hijacking. | pdbbonsai | General | 54 | 7-Nov-2003 01:38 AM |
| Studying Japanese Bonsai Is WRONG!!! | HB Smith | Students of Bonsai | 45 | 21-Oct-2003 11:39 PM |