'To some, what you see as "useless argument" is interesting --- even vital --- discussion.'

Yes indeeed, some or even many cannot understand what all this fuss is about. They have become the minority though. I rememeber well about eight years ago in what was the only serious bonsai forum then, the IBC list, bringing up the question whether bonsai is art or craft. The debate was heated and some tried to crucify me. Times have changed and opinons voiced here tell me that times have changed much to the better.

So why should I bother to read all this crap? Because it tells me whether bonsai is worth my while or not. It tells me whether I have to listen to people who tell me what's 'wrong or right' or whether I can call them bonsai fundamentalists. It tells me whether to take someone for serious as bonsai person or not.

This sort of discussion is VITAL. It makes all the difference for now and the future of bonsai in the western world. We are in the middle of a bonsai revolution and most have not noticed it. This sort of debate is a clear sign of it. We are about to emancipate from bonsai as craft and practise it as artform. In Europe this happened about ten years ago. And an explosion in quality and genuine artistry followed. I can see the same happening in America now. I looks forward to see the progress and I wish a similar dramatic explosion of quality bonsai will happen as in Europe.

Italy was NOT on the bonsai map fifteen years ago. It was an underdeveloped country. Now the whole of Italian bonsai artists beat the wole of America. Easily, left-hadedly! It took them fifteen years only. But what caused this explosion? They were the first ones to have discovered that bonsai can be an artform. Italy had NO hsitory of bonsai, no burden of tradition, no masters who would clap on fingers for wrongdoing. They just did it.

This is good news. It can be done in a relatively short time span. Short enough for most of us. A debate like this is necessary to start moving.
OK, so start moving. Start to create little trees that move your sould. Stop creating bonsai that look like everybody else's

MAKE BONSAI THAT REMIND YOU OF BIG SUR, OF THE ROCK MOUNTAINS, OF AMERICAN OAKS.

"Three decades ago John Naka, speaking in California, said "bonsai no longer belongs to the Japanese." What he meant was that people the world over have taken up the art in such numbers and with such vigor that they are no longer looking solely to the Japanese tradition. They are striking out on their own, emphasizing their native plant material, drawing inspiration from mountains, lakes, swamps and forests around them, and producing bonsai that reflect their cultural heritage."

„But most of all I want to thank my great silent teachers -- the Sierra Nevada mountains, the Mojave Desert, the Monterey Coast, the Sequoia National Park here in California, and also the Rocky Mountains of Colorado, my birth place. They have offered a multitude of bonsai models for me. I was indeed fortunate to have such a golden opportunity to explore, observe and be influenced by those fantastic and diversified trees, such as the Bristlecone Pines, Limber Pines, Ponderosa Pines, California Junipers, the Cypress, the Giant Sequoias, the Oaks and many other species.„
John Naka, Bonsai Techniques II


Is it not time now to listen to this great man finally and start moving? To start standing on John Naka's shoulders and try to push the edge of the art of bonsai?

Walter,

As always your experience speaks loudly in your words as well as in your work. Reading these words of yours I was struck by just how much was said in this thread as a whole, some truly remarkable thoughts were expressed here. I hope everyone can wade though the nay-sayers to glean some of the knowledge that is contained and gain the courage needed to take another step forward toward artistic bonsai.

Revolution? Yes, you're right, I never seen it that way, but how very true. It would appear the battle has taken a turn for the better.

You have always been a inspiration for many Walter, thank you for being an example to follow, for generously giving your time to help us advance in the art and for making the effort to prod us forward into the light even if we fight all the way.


Will

Walter,

I like you, are inspired by the silent teachers. This is my art and I look to nature to inspire me and then listen to people like you to help guide me.

Peace
Bob

I couldn't have said it better.

I'm too human sometimes. Even though I KNOW (like Pootsie says) I shouldn't "feed the dragon," I sometimes can't help myself. But mostly I TRY not to engage in trivial energy wasting bickering.

I liked the t-shirt I read once; "I'd love to get into a battle of wits with you, but you appear to have come unarmed."

<<<That isn't for anybody in particular, I just think it's hilarious.

Yeah, that explains it thanks. Although I disagree with the "much wasted time" bit. I really don't think it takes an Einstein to sort the good advice from the bad here. Someone has only got to browse the archives here for an hour or so to get a good idea if any left field advice is trustworthy. If people don't research, then frankly they deserve what they get.

Regards,

Chris.

Snicker.



So art in bonsai not only survives but thrives as most suspected.

Craft, hobby, a way to relax, all are valid and all can be enjoyed, but these practitioners must realize that at the heart, bonsai is an art.

The closer your bonsai comes to having "soul", the closer it comes to art. We all strive for better, more artistic bonsai, no matter what level we may currently be at. A good bonsai teacher is an art teacher and a good bonsaist is an artist.

The debate heats up only when people attempt to invalidate the art, to trivialize it, to suggest that bonsai can exist without it.


Will Heath

Will, you seem more sure of everything than I am of anything. Must be nice to be so confident.

Brian

Brian,

I trust in those artists with years more experience than I have, I trust in the words of the great bonsai artists of the day, I trust in the words of the greats that came before them.

I will never be ashamed of my confidence, I only hope that I never lose it.


Yes, it is nice.


Will

I don't mean to seem argumentative Will. I have met many folks that were very confident of their positions....whatever the subject. I've just never been one of them. I feel that its possible that the people one disagrees with most strongly, may hold equally valid positions. I try to keep that in mind...sometimes succeed, sometimes fail.

Brian

I feel must answer some questions that were proposed .
I don't trivialize art. Believe it or not, bonsai is very important in my life and yes do think of it as an art form.
I don't think of myself as an artist. I can only parrot what the artist discovers. I can teach what the talented have learned and have taught me. At best I am a tape recorder. I can repeat only what I have learned from those that are the real artist. And yes Walter Paul is among those that I would consider to be a true artists. He is in good company, there are quite a few true artists out there, and he is definitely one of them.
But as in religion there are a lot of false profits. Those that can spew out the words and at the same time call themselves a student. Admit that they are still learning but can also tell others what the art is all about. One book, a workshop, two trees and they are the expert
So many times I have heard the comment "we must raise the bar:" or "this is how it must be done" I must admit that I have heard all these things from Walter Paul. But naturally he can come right back with examples and even lessons on how to achieve the best of the best.
For a change it would be refreshing when someone does the art talk they would have to give examples of just what good art is. Not painting, not sculpture but bonsai art.
Of all the people that I have had heated discussions with on this forum I think that the one I respected the most was Bonsaial.
He could talk the talk but like Walter he could also give examples. Show what bonsai art was. FWIW I miss those discussions. I learned a lot from them. ( please don't tell him I said that)
I am not against the art discussions. They do have their place. They can be enlightening.
But a discussion without answers is a waste of time. That is why I have problems with the art threads. I think that they have a purpose.One can definitely learn from them. We do need them.They can be interesting.
But like all discussions the one that they call the facilator must be qualified to lead. All to often that is not the case.
When you see one of those "this is art" or"this is not art" threads Stop. Look at who wrote it. Then ask yourself the big question "Why should I believe him/her?" What qualifies them to give me advise.
You might just be surprised at how many times you would say "Poop next expert" ;O)
And yes I do include my posts in that comment.
Make everyone prove that they know............. You will be the only one to pay for bad information
Hope that answers all the questions about my comments on the art threads.
I now turn it over to the dreaded three ;o) ;o) ( that is two grins because I think I might need both)
I'm off to do some bonsai. When I am done can I come back.