Geez,
I am telling you, that Andy Graham guy, he is always blaming people for stuff they had nothing to do with. He really paints his bonsai buddies with a broad brush.

Attila, Carl,
Once again I have to say how much I respect you and your deep commitment to bonsai and its art and practice. Because I appreciate you both so much I have to tell you how sad I am that you cannot see the side of Will Heath that comes forth to those who cannot help him advance himself. He is vicious, mean-spirited, a bully, liar and thief.

You may be able to separate the man from his actions, and you should. You cannot and should not try to separate the man from his character.

Ralph...."Geez,
I am telling you, that Andy Graham guy, he is always blaming people for stuff they had nothing to do with. He really paints his bonsai buddies with a broad brush."

Damn!I knew better than to stick my oar in this polluted pond. It's the foot in mouth I never seem to extract.

andy

At a couple of points in this mess, and another sites, I defended Will and others, and thought it was a thin skin, and you did it so we will do it back, like a bunch of children issue, but I have had some about faces, or at least rearrangement of sentiment.

It's time for a hole bunch of people to GROW UP, put the G Darned egos in a sack and burry them. Ron this is NOT aimed at you, I think you have acted the most sensible of the bunch, and I am sorry that you experienced what you did, and hope you will realize tha most of us out here feel the same way.

Carl, most times you have shown a pretty good sense of modicum, but now you join the game of antagonize the latest victim of the games. If you want to stay neutral, as you have indicated in previous posts, and other sites, then you should really stay neutral. Based on the "words of Will" that you brought on his behalf so he could throw himself on a sword, as an apology to the many, I think Ron's showing up with a brief, and non malicious reply is his due. Please leave it at that, and spare us the witty repetouire, I think we would ALL appreciate it.

This is not the only site this garbage has been going on, and it drove another sites administrators, and moderators to cheat, lie, and work behind the backs of the users of the site. Most of what has been going on is petty nonsense that should be stopped without dragging it out in public. I realize for the site admin. that isn't always easy to catch right away, but kill it when you find it and remove the privalidges that come with joining, call it closed and be done with it. If someone is continuously misrepresenting themselves when putting in membership applications, I have to believe there are recourses available that would put an end to the horse poopy that we are all being so odiferously being exposed to.

Some of the above words have been altered to protect my membership from being removed for the use of improper words, I think you can figure which they were.

And I do have a small defense of some "name" people that did offer some very good words of wisdom for the MANY people who need them, and got pissed off by others that knew far less that those they argue with. It is this, NEWBIES and apprentice enthusiasts, match your tone and line of argument to something you can speak of with first hand knowledge, otherwise the internet bonsai forums will be taught by you. If you understand that, you will realize that this is Not a good thing.

Vance, Ron, Will, Carl, Brent, Chris ( no included inferance or implication to any of the afore mentioned horse hockey ) I thank you all for your participation in these forums, and appreciate all the great information you have shared with us, more than not, have benifited from your help.

Thats my rant, and my suggestion is to ----

1.
2.
3.
Lock this, and Cut the Crapola! This is a forun to learn about Bonsai, not fly a plane into the deck of your enemy.

Bill

... and equally so to teach. Those who would assume that role incur with it a responsibility and an accountability beyond what is expected of the average member.

Regards,

Matt

Treebay, I definately agree with that.

Thanks for the addition.

Bill

Here's the type of communication I get from the guy:

/"Attila, Carl,
/
/Once again I have to say how much I respect you and your deep commitment to bonsai and its art and practice. Because I appreciate you both so much I have to tell you how sad I am that you cannot see the side of Will Heath that comes forth to those who cannot help him advance himself. He is vicious, mean-spirited, a bully, liar and thief.

You may be able to separate the man from his actions, and you should. You cannot and should not try to separate the man from his character."/

I would rather be all these things than a coward like yourself.


Cheers,

Will Heath

I agree. There are undoubtedly readers of the Journal of the American Bonsai Society who do not frequent this or other sites, who are unaware of the mistake and apology.

Does anyone know if the editors of the Journal are taking any disciplinary action (e.g. future contributions)? Alternately, are there plans to print a correction/list of sources? After all, the introduction at issue comprised nearly the first full page of the Journal article. Recent corrections have been printed in other bonsai periodicals, such a remedy might place this issue completely to rest for all involved.

It is true the bonsai periodicals most of us read are not peer-reviewed scientific journals. However, I expect the editors of bonsai magazines and journals should still be concerned with the integrity of all material in their publications. I would hope this concern remains no matter how unintentional or accidental the mistake, and regardless of the author's credentials, prior achievements, or enthusiasm.

Enthusiasm is no substitute for achievement......

Bring on the pictures of bonsai and let the chips fall where they may!

I agree. There's nothing wrong with aiming for the highest standards of professionalism; this would suggest that any bonsai publication, be it print or online, should print a correction / acknowledgment of any erroneous, plagarized, or otherwise problematic article published there.

Best regards,
Carl