John,
I am disheartened by your reply here. To take your own and Will's bull#$%^ and pass it off as a Machiavellian power play by the owners of their own site is beyond comprehension. You should be ashamed for your part in that debacle, and you deserved to be banned.

Remind me to look for your name on web and written articles, too.

P.S. Anyone with their own experience is qualified to pass that on to someone else. Cutting and pasting, collating, paraphrasing, etc., others' work and passing it off as your own is what is objected to in this thread. Here's a quote from Will's "Collecting from the Wild" article that makes it seem he has years of experience when we have all seen him go from badbyte to Will Heath to banned in the space of about two years.

Over the years I have refined the tools I take down to the base minimum and as I sometimes have to walk a ways to where I will be collecting, this helps lighten my load and save my back. The following is a list of tools and supplies I carry in my backpack when collecting in the wild.

--Will Heath, "Collecting from the Wild,"

Knowledge of Bonsai web forum, available at http://www.knowledgeofbonsai.org/collecting/basics.php.

Accessed 9/22/2006

That, by the way, is the proper way to cite quotations or other material.

Hate to say it but I am a bit disappointed in the fact that we haven’t heard from more of the founders of that site.

At the risk of being called a devil worshiping moron, not to mention a nare do well I would like to hear what Walter Paul had to say on this matter. He is one of the founding members after all.

Does he think that Will’s transgression is excusable.

Is it considered crossing the line to ask his opinion. I for one would be swayed by what he said.

Sorry dude, you are f%^&ing with the wrong guy now. I know enough about Will's ability to rig anything he wants to say anything he wants. He is a bully, liar, thief, and perhaps even a sociopath.

You and Jon are just as liable in my book. If I found I had access to a mod account somewhere, even if I hated the place, it would be wrong for me to use it. Don't play innocent with me. You guys stirred up far too much stuff for me to just roll over and ask to see your doctored stuff.

From all the bull that Will and his puppets pulled here with the rep system, and what happened at bonsaichat, it seems to me you are accusing the mods there of what your group are guilty of.

Never PM me again

Dear BonsaiKC,

Firstly, I have always abhored week people who find that they have to hide behind a pseudonym on a web site.

The fact that you have a personal bitch with Will is obvious to us all, and as far as I am concerned, I could care less.

And as to your comment,


I for one, did not and, have never purpoted to be anything more than a bonsai enthusiest. I have never written any bonsai articles worthy of publication.

and

Quote:

If I found I had access to a mod account somewhere, even if I hated the place, it would be wrong for me to use it.

If you expect me to believe that you are dumber than I first thought.

and

Quote:

You and Jon are just as liable in my book.

For your information and to set the records straight, Bill (Mcspeed)had absolutely nothing to do with what went on at BC. I believe that he is just a member who could see the truth between the lies.

and


Ditto - you are off my Christmas list.

Jon Chown

It's bad when it comes down to me to say this but can you two take this to the web site that it belongs to.
Hate to say it but it is now getting a bit stupid.

Sorry.....but I promised myself I would post no further on this subject. However being only human I cannot just stand by and see the site I am associated with in being attacked. Number one: on the night of the occurrence it is in the administrators records that only two members had access to the moderator board...NO ON ELSE!! Get it? The moderator that was on that evening even asked other members if they had access to the mod. board while this was going on. The answer from them was a resounding...NO!! Don't hand me this crap about some "glitch" as they would like you, me and everyone else to think! You take it from there. I suggest you get your facts straight Bill instead of second hand crap from those who had a field day in what they did like a bunch of mischievous adolescent children.

Secondly: certain people tried to turn the contest into a farce with entering trees that where to be newly bought from a nursery with trees that were purchased over a year ago!! I'll not give the names but I'm pretty sure any member here can easily surmise who they were! Anything to WIN! Again....just proof of there adolescent behavior. Anything no matter what just to win a contest that was simply meant to be fun and had a few simple prizes involved.
As you damn well know the administrator was so upset by the whole thing as were many of the members that for all practical purposes the contest came to an end with no prizes being given out. The word "rigged" is a slap in the face and by no means did anything even related to that word ever transpire.

Like said Bill......get off the blinders and wake up for God sakes! If you wish to remain blind and follow the blind be my guest. I'm sick of them, they more than deserved to be banned and to be quite frank....I'm sick of your unfounded, second hand information that you seem so willingly to accept as Gospel truth from those who have the intellect of a child and have proven beyond any doubt to behave as such. "nough said.

My apologies here to all the members for having to drag past troubles from another site and have them discussed here. It was never my intention to do so but, I hope you can understand my frustration with being a member here and then having to read post's with my site being attacked by people with second hand information from people who's very character is in serious question. Again....my sincere apologies.

Best, Phil

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Jon,



This would be more accurate, as you had your partner in crime, Hector Johnson with you that night.

Just to make what happened a bit clearer...

There are 5 Mods and 1 Administrator over at BC, which have the authority to access the Mod and Administrative forums.

During the early morning hours of the day in question, I personally witnessed both Hector Johnson and Jon Chown in the Mod forum on the Bonsai Chat Site.

I sent them PM's letting them know that I was aware of it, and I asked them to leave. They didn't respond or leave, so I banned them. This occurred at roughly 4am in the morning and by 8am, Hector found his way back to the site twice and was banned each time. Also I might add, after discovery, Jon did not leave until an hour later.

During this time, one of our members who was on the site with me was asked find out if he could see the mod link to the forum and if so, try to gain access. He couldn't do either. So, apparently there wasn't a glitch.

When the situation was investigated, our Administrator Ryan stated that the 2 members had somehow gained "approved" access to the Administrative areas.

P.S. Ryan didn't want to take the harsh stance and state that the site was hacked, because it was hard to prove exactly what had happened.

Cheryl Wagner
BC Moderator

BTW People -
Ryan himself posted an apology for the statements stating that the mod section was hacked and admitted it was not.
What happened is that he himself left the access public after changing the pm and sig privileges of Jon Chown and Hector Johnson, this is why only they could get in, he wasn’t changing anyone elses access.
Jon is more than willing to send the copied posts.

Paul....I think this a great site and would never consider leaving as the information given here is much too valuable and the members for the most part seem to be great people. However, if I ever did leave I don't think I would leave with posting this sites logo and a Swastika slapped on it as you did ours. Yeah Paul........care to explain that little disgusting, deplorable and reprehensible act to the others here!! I'm sure they would all LOVE to see it. I still have it on my computer if you lost yours......just let me know. Always more than willing to help out a fellow memeber.

Phil